I've listened to a few interviews with Audrey and each time I feel a little bit of hope that there may be a better way forward. I will share the wisdom around so we can keep creating more islands of sanity with rich soil from all the rotten bits we'll be composting. Here's to being good enough ancestors. Thanks for the message of hope 🙏
Thank you, Emma. I think some of that comes from Sarah's willingness to leave space in the conversation rather than fill every pause. Glad it landed that way for you!
That's generous Audrey. As you recall, I was a hot mess that day with the tech issues and I over-yabbered as a host. It did, however, serve to really emphasise your point.
Incredible to see a ray of hope! Audrey’s achievements and ideas blew my mind, wow! I’m wondering how we can implement the concept of finding the uncommon ground on a micro level in, as in in our daily interactions so as to reduce polarization. Also wondering if these ideas have been implemented in restoration/ living in good relationship with nature and wildlife? That would be incredible!
Their speaking pace and cadence calmed me instantly. So interesting to hear how their illness from a young age instilled a measured way of communicating that infused into a world view. They gave me the impression of a wise yogi/monk, where each observation was a window into wisdom. Looking forward to seeing the show notes that Audrey offered to contribute to.
Loved this and the first episode of series 2 so much. Wild is welcomed back with arms (and heart) wide open 🙌❤️🤩
Thank you, Kate. Your comment is a good prompt for me to deliver on the show-notes promise. Sarah asked during the conversation whether there was science behind the grayscale practice, so here is the closest fit I found:
The short version: grayscaling is an effective strategy to reduce screen time and improve digital well-being. Interestingly, people in the study kept unlocking their phones just as often - grayscale does not stop the impulse to check - but staying inside the interface becomes less compelling, so attention returns to the room more easily.
The yogi/monk comparison is generous, by the way. I would settle for "person with a heart condition who learned to breathe intentionally" 🙂
I have enjoyed many of your podcasts Sarah and this has to be one of my favourites! What an incredible mind Audrey has, I feel honoured to have been given a glimpse. Thank you Sarah and Audrey.
Your admiration for Audrey was beautiful to see Sarah.
I was so heartened by this conversation and it reminds me of the Milton Friedman quote about the actions taken depend on the ideas lying around at the time.
What I took from this conversation is that there are a lot of pockets around the world, of people who have amazing ideas and are implementing them.
I love so many of Audrey's ideas!
Something else that I loved was the quiet, calm energy of the discussion - you both gave each other so much space and it was a joy to witness. I think it's the most calm I have ever seen you in an interview Sarah xx
Thank you, Karola. The Friedman line is exactly right, and I would add that the ideas lying around do not have to be dramatic to be useful. Often they are quite modest: a better bridging system, a law that makes joint liability explicit. The pockets ("cores" in rewilding terms) you mention are real, and more connected to each other ("corridors") than they sometimes appear. That is part of what gives me hope too.
Thank you for your response Audrey. Yes that's what was so uplifting and inspiring for me watching the chat - realising that the ideas don't need to be dramatic but as you say, quite modest. Like many in this space I have often wondered what I can actually do and this chat, and your work, has helped me see that there are possibilities.
That means a great deal to hear, Karola. "What can we actually do" is the question that unlocks everything else, and you are already doing it, by looking for the modest handhold rather than waiting for the dramatic one. Small acts of noticing are keystones in their own right - they are how corridors form between the cores.
Thank you again Audrey. This comment really touched me and spoke to me on a deep level. I love the language of "cores" and "corridors" and I'll be watching out for them.
An enlightening and inspiring discussion and I agree it offers hope in the looming shadow of Big AI. I wonder how we implement a local model though when we don't all have an Audrey to drive it? (I wish you were my neighbor Audrey!) it's great to know it's possible but I feel like you would need a lot of specialised knowledge and influence to get community and local institutions on board and to implement a local AI system.
Thank you, Elizabeth. The honest answer is that you do not need an Audrey. You need a small group of neighbors willing to try one thing.
A practical starting point: the tools I mentioned in the conversation are free and open source. Pol.is (for finding uncommon ground on a local question) can be run by anyone — a council, a community group, a school P&C.
Many organizers have used it for a single decision, like a contested planning issue, and found that the experience itself builds the civic muscle for the next one: https://bloom-project.org/#conversations
For local AI specifically, tools like LM Studio with LM Link now let a community run small models on ordinary machines — no cloud, no data leaving the room.
Thank you Audrey and Sarah. I'm feeling inspired by the leadership model you presented. The idea of working positively and showing an alternative solution, rather than trying to convince through argument and persuasion all the time, is a way I can see myself helping in this space and being a "good ancestor" without becoming so despondent. A conversation that left me with hope and what feels like achievable action after a long period of despair about the inevitability of all that is happening.
Your convesration made a beautiful presentation of a way of being now and a way forward. Thank you both so much for sharing these healing and encouraging words.
Thank you, Therese. I like the framing "a way of being now and a way forward" very much. The two really are inseparable. We cannot compost the old system from a state of panic; the steadiness is part of the method. Wishing you well!
Wow, how brilliant Audrey and you were together. Audrey maybe an emanation of the spiritual force humanity needs to live and love fully in a collapsing world. Very inspiring. Deep gratitude for all that was shared. 🙏🧡
There is definitely a malicious intent behind HD screens , beauty filters , AI , intense porn , click bait and doom scrolling. The companies are designing to capture our dopamine reward system. Gone grey now too ✌🏼
I've listened to a few interviews with Audrey and each time I feel a little bit of hope that there may be a better way forward. I will share the wisdom around so we can keep creating more islands of sanity with rich soil from all the rotten bits we'll be composting. Here's to being good enough ancestors. Thanks for the message of hope 🙏
My (our) pleasure.
It's a gentle, sensical type of hope, isn't it?
What a beautiful, clean & crisp breath of fresh air this was to listen to. Thank you Audrey & Sarah.
Thank you, Emma. I think some of that comes from Sarah's willingness to leave space in the conversation rather than fill every pause. Glad it landed that way for you!
That's generous Audrey. As you recall, I was a hot mess that day with the tech issues and I over-yabbered as a host. It did, however, serve to really emphasise your point.
Not a hot mess at all. I remember the tech struggles and thought they were thematically on point, given what we were discussing 🙂
I feel you also left a lot of space in the conversation Audrey. This was such a pleasure to watch, thank you.
yes, distinct 5 minute listening intervals!
I wrote that comment before I finished watching and after watching to the end, I get the reference!
Indeed. I agree whole heartedly.
Incredible to see a ray of hope! Audrey’s achievements and ideas blew my mind, wow! I’m wondering how we can implement the concept of finding the uncommon ground on a micro level in, as in in our daily interactions so as to reduce polarization. Also wondering if these ideas have been implemented in restoration/ living in good relationship with nature and wildlife? That would be incredible!
I think that idea STARTS at the micro level and Audrey has shown how it can work at scale.
Audrey is a breath of fresh air!
Their speaking pace and cadence calmed me instantly. So interesting to hear how their illness from a young age instilled a measured way of communicating that infused into a world view. They gave me the impression of a wise yogi/monk, where each observation was a window into wisdom. Looking forward to seeing the show notes that Audrey offered to contribute to.
Loved this and the first episode of series 2 so much. Wild is welcomed back with arms (and heart) wide open 🙌❤️🤩
Oh, that's great to hear. Audrey is indeed someone who embodies what they know and teach.
Thank you, Kate. Your comment is a good prompt for me to deliver on the show-notes promise. Sarah asked during the conversation whether there was science behind the grayscale practice, so here is the closest fit I found:
Dekker & Baumgartner (2024), "Is life brighter when your phone is not? The efficacy of a grayscale smartphone intervention addressing digital well-being" - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/20501579231212062
The short version: grayscaling is an effective strategy to reduce screen time and improve digital well-being. Interestingly, people in the study kept unlocking their phones just as often - grayscale does not stop the impulse to check - but staying inside the interface becomes less compelling, so attention returns to the room more easily.
The yogi/monk comparison is generous, by the way. I would settle for "person with a heart condition who learned to breathe intentionally" 🙂
I have enjoyed many of your podcasts Sarah and this has to be one of my favourites! What an incredible mind Audrey has, I feel honoured to have been given a glimpse. Thank you Sarah and Audrey.
Your admiration for Audrey was beautiful to see Sarah.
I was so heartened by this conversation and it reminds me of the Milton Friedman quote about the actions taken depend on the ideas lying around at the time.
What I took from this conversation is that there are a lot of pockets around the world, of people who have amazing ideas and are implementing them.
I love so many of Audrey's ideas!
Something else that I loved was the quiet, calm energy of the discussion - you both gave each other so much space and it was a joy to witness. I think it's the most calm I have ever seen you in an interview Sarah xx
Oh gosh, Karola. That was Audrey overcompensating!
Apart from the really wonderful, intellectually stimulating conversation, it was lovely watching the interaction between you both.
Thank you, Karola. The Friedman line is exactly right, and I would add that the ideas lying around do not have to be dramatic to be useful. Often they are quite modest: a better bridging system, a law that makes joint liability explicit. The pockets ("cores" in rewilding terms) you mention are real, and more connected to each other ("corridors") than they sometimes appear. That is part of what gives me hope too.
Thank you for your response Audrey. Yes that's what was so uplifting and inspiring for me watching the chat - realising that the ideas don't need to be dramatic but as you say, quite modest. Like many in this space I have often wondered what I can actually do and this chat, and your work, has helped me see that there are possibilities.
That means a great deal to hear, Karola. "What can we actually do" is the question that unlocks everything else, and you are already doing it, by looking for the modest handhold rather than waiting for the dramatic one. Small acts of noticing are keystones in their own right - they are how corridors form between the cores.
Thank you again Audrey. This comment really touched me and spoke to me on a deep level. I love the language of "cores" and "corridors" and I'll be watching out for them.
And what a stunning reframe of collapse into composting the old to build the new!
When I think of that interview I breathe deeply and feel gratitude, peace and hope.
Such perfect timing.
Thank you all.♥️
An enlightening and inspiring discussion and I agree it offers hope in the looming shadow of Big AI. I wonder how we implement a local model though when we don't all have an Audrey to drive it? (I wish you were my neighbor Audrey!) it's great to know it's possible but I feel like you would need a lot of specialised knowledge and influence to get community and local institutions on board and to implement a local AI system.
Thank you, Elizabeth. The honest answer is that you do not need an Audrey. You need a small group of neighbors willing to try one thing.
A practical starting point: the tools I mentioned in the conversation are free and open source. Pol.is (for finding uncommon ground on a local question) can be run by anyone — a council, a community group, a school P&C.
Many organizers have used it for a single decision, like a contested planning issue, and found that the experience itself builds the civic muscle for the next one: https://bloom-project.org/#conversations
For local AI specifically, tools like LM Studio with LM Link now let a community run small models on ordinary machines — no cloud, no data leaving the room.
And there's your book to walk people through things, too.
obviously I've got some reading and exploring to do…. thank you.
Thank you Audrey and Sarah. I'm feeling inspired by the leadership model you presented. The idea of working positively and showing an alternative solution, rather than trying to convince through argument and persuasion all the time, is a way I can see myself helping in this space and being a "good ancestor" without becoming so despondent. A conversation that left me with hope and what feels like achievable action after a long period of despair about the inevitability of all that is happening.
Forking!
Exactly!
Your convesration made a beautiful presentation of a way of being now and a way forward. Thank you both so much for sharing these healing and encouraging words.
Thank you, Therese. I like the framing "a way of being now and a way forward" very much. The two really are inseparable. We cannot compost the old system from a state of panic; the steadiness is part of the method. Wishing you well!
Mind blown on many levels. Teary by the end as well. Thank you both 💛 💛
Wow, how brilliant Audrey and you were together. Audrey maybe an emanation of the spiritual force humanity needs to live and love fully in a collapsing world. Very inspiring. Deep gratitude for all that was shared. 🙏🧡
that's so kind x
Love this interview!
I do have to correct you though. There was a transgender mp in New Zealand decades ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgina_Beyer ❤️
Great to have your podcasts back.
Wow, this was a good one
Thank you Audrey for your work 🙏🏼
Sounds like you got a lot out of the conversation Sarah, you can hear the tears and the relief in your voice
I would suggest Audrey just to give the advice to allow yourself to notice when you leave the other or yourself.
Rather than trying or pushing to keep your attention focused
There is definitely a malicious intent behind HD screens , beauty filters , AI , intense porn , click bait and doom scrolling. The companies are designing to capture our dopamine reward system. Gone grey now too ✌🏼