Mark, I'm not sure if this gets at the spirit of your observations and questions, but the bit of the conversation I was able to listen to really made me think that moving forward right now is an incarnational thing: it requires us to face ourselves and heal as individuals so that our hearts and minds can be true homes for love, gentleness, patience, humility -- essentially the same values with which we'd like to be treated. We can only instill these things in our public dialogue to the extent that we've made room for them in our own lives. What will emerge will come through our taking responsibility for our lives, and healing, because when we do that our eyes and hearts are open to recognizing what love can do, and by taking our part in the vast web of life -- our vocations, if you will. We are honest about our sufferings and we name the truth, but we choose a better way than spiraling in victimhood or projection.
I've just become certified as an End of Life Doula after a 6 month intensive program. The number one thing that is repeated over and over and over in the program is that it is not just essential, but absolutely critical to our work that we are rigorously self aware about what we carry inside. It is the filter through which we see everything. We must know ourselves and have deep compassion towards ourselves. We must examine where guilt, pain, and sorrow live in us so that we can truly sit with others in theirs in this time of sorrow, loss, and rage, and to not centre our own sorrow and loss in all that we do. Otherwise it will bury us. But it's the only way to get to the love inside. In my experience, it's the only way to be with the world right now in its vulnerability and fragility, and to truly see one another as blessed and beloved, worthy of respect, compassion, and hospitality of heart.
You might really love the written work of Frank Ostaseki. His approach to life is so tender and powerful. He's got a neat online event happening next year that focuses on service: https://frankostaseski.com/events/
Personally, "The Work" by Byron Katie is also a resource that has helped me get perspective on my tendency to be overwhelmed by my own pain, especially when things feel so bleak. I've just started using it and helps me understand my own thinking and emotional tendencies in a way that little else has. It's in learning from people who've done this work already that I am finding I can be a true "apprentice to sorrow" as Francis Weller says, and have my eyes become accustomed to the dark and see the glittering rivers of joy embedded in what so often otherwise just simply hurts.
Thanks Madeleine - Frank was on Wild some time back too. I'll dig up the episode. I've always taken incarnation to mean quite specifically something that transposes in another life/time. Do you mean it as an ego death that occurs in this lifetime allowing for new life?
Maybe re: ego death is getting at it? I'd have to think about that a bit more, because it's my "self" that I celebrate and love. I think of incarnation as a radical trust in the power of love and its creative impulse, and how self-offering flows out of that. It's an ontological thing. Like, I look at my hands, and think: how can these actually BE love? How can this flesh and bone and pumping blood in me and brain activity actually be, actually enflesh love and what I believe is the meaning of it all? In what ways do they need to move and what things do they need to do so that they are animated by the life force that breaks open the seeds in dark soil, or that holds the spinning planets in their ellipses, a "yes" response to how genetic material and breath and soul have conspired to form Maddie in this time and in this place? What does that ask of me; what response is the most honest one when "to be" is a blessing or when it feels like a curse, because it can, sometimes, for all of us?
My understanding is grounded in my faith, for sure. This poem by Therese of Avila gets at the heart of what my understanding of incarnation is:
Christ has no body but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which he looks
Compassion on this world,
Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good,
Yours are the hands, with which he blesses all the world.
Yours are the hands, yours are the feet,
Yours are the eyes, you are his body.
Christ has no body now but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which he looks
compassion on this world.
Christ has no body now on earth but yours.
But, because I am human, actually living into this requires me to have the same grace towards myself that God has, because as a human being, my capacities to be the hands and heart and feet and eyes of God are finite and also formed in my fears, shame, judgements, etc. The self offering to incarnate love is imperfect, and that is ok. Love is never about perfection or flawlessness. The honesty around it is a state of grace.
Incarnation, I think, has more to do with tethering our egos to grace than it is with the ego dying, per se. Cole Arthur Riley has a profound explanation of incarnation in her book This Here Flesh. She is talking about how our understanding of God is so often more formed by our own judgements and fears about disconnection and worthlessness than by truly looking at what God does in Scripture as a sign of the infinite tenderness and mercy of God's heart. This is my favourite part of what she writes: “On the day the world began to die, God became a seamstress. This is the moment in the Bible that I wish we talked about more often. When Eve and Adam eat from the tree, and decay and despair begin to creep in, when they learn to hide from their own bodies, when they learn to hide from each other—no one ever told me the story of a God who kneels and makes clothes out of animal skin for them.” It changes the entire way we consider love when we look at things this way. Love just flows from God because God can't NOT love. It's not in God to do. So love seeks chaos and pain and shame because God aligns God's self with those in chaos and pain; love is the wellspring that bursts forth from the waters of creation that are always holding us as we participate in our own becoming, that God yells "is GOOD!!!" and that love flows to where love is not, because it can't not do that. My work is to remember this, to keep my heart open to this as best I can.
So, in response to fascism, and as an embodied activism, incarnation is many things: courage with a heartbeat; making a sacrifice of our fears and judgements; it is a love that watches, responds to specific needs, elevates and reverences what neoliberal forces consider lowly or expendable, and can't be argued with because in being tethered to grace, it's the act of love that is centered, and not us. It is being a living sacrifice, as best we can, where we are.
Edited to add: And the sacrifice that incarnation invites us to make is sacrificing a need for vindication or to "win"; our need to depend on external circumstances we can't control as the way to re-connect us to our humanity and the preciousness of our selves, and our own life-force (for example, waiting for justice to visit the tech bros as a way to quell rage). It is to surrender to a deeper and more ancient, foundational way of spirit -- an alignment with the force that wove things into being. Incarnation is taking the shape of who we need to be in our unique lives to allow this force to flow through us. In some ways, it harkens back to what Ian McGilchrist was saying about the left brain being in service to the right brain. Incarnation is a practice of the left, ego driven capacities being in service to the right, connected, "I am because we are" capacities.
Madeleine, everytime i read this something new hits me. Thank you for taking the time to formulate this. The dynamic thar God cant not love is so powerful for me.i will carrytis today❤️
Jocelyn, I will walk in the grace of this beautiful message this week. How are you feeling these days? Was thinking of you today after reading this & your heart -- I'll write a private message.
Madeleine I started reading Mary Magdalene Revealed and came across this part of the Gospel of Philip "What you say, you say in a body, you can say nothing outside this body. You must awaken while in this body, for everything exists in it: Resurrect in this life". That last part is what I relate to with what you said Sarah of "ego death that occurs in this lifetime allowing for new life". But I just love how this challenges the many times/ways people receive messages of shame about the body.
I liked what Meggan Watterson says "the body is the soul's chance to be here" .
So I understand incarnation as being "embodied in flesh" enough to know the divine centre of our being and seek to live from that place now as much as possible, both "human and holy" (MW) body and soul. That the critical part is differentiating what is ego, while knowing it's a construction and not who we really are "if we lose it all"...that what is left is a divine eternal being connected to the whole.
Yes!!! Incarnation is entirely in this lifetime. And what is really interesting (and painful) is that one of the first moves of autocracy, fascism etc. is to police women’s bodies. TBH Jesus is the opposite of this. When the woman who anointed his feet presented herself to him as she would a husband by taking off her head covering and washing his feet with her hair, and the disciples tried to shut it down/shame her, Jesus told the disciples to chill the eff out & that her self offering was holy. And he settled right into ease and receptivity. Jesus never once, never ever, did anything other than honour and delight in women’s bodies. Part of incarnation is living out of that truth in the now. It’s valorous.
This is a beautiful explanation of the wonder and beauty of love, Madeleine. God made us out of love, we are loved by the trinity simply because we were created out of love by love and to love. But we can only love when we understand ourselves, accept ourselves and love ourselves.
Big love, dear Madeleine. And thank you for the references too.
I've been a long time follower of Marianne's, so it was fantastic to hear the two of you speak together for this needed conversation. Sarah, she really answered the question you posed last week, did she not? During this time, we can't check out, we can't spiritually bypass. And at the same time, you don't need to scroll or remain laser focused on the news all day each day. You remain diligent and sober in every way, in order to be alert and help where needed. You become an absolute athlete, and in order to do that you cultivate some major spiritual practices. And you do it day in, day out. For me, this is the only way I will be able to remain mentally healthy enough to be of benefit to be a death doula, and a midwife for what's to come.
I am very interested in hearing what Marianne's specific practice recommendations are. Thanks again to you both!
Every time someone says we MUST get spiritually vigilant to be of service, I lighten up...I need the invite to be more vigilant. Which tells me this is precisely where I need to be.
That point really hit home to me Amanda, don't check out but don't remain laser focused on the news....watching every single video that comes across your SM feed.
I loved this chat, so inspiring! This is one I'll need to watch again to really absorb all the wonderful wisdom Marianne imparts. Such a shame about the tech glitch. I would love to see another chat between you too whenever you can tee it up.
I loved the way the conversation begins with Mahatma Ghandi and ends with Goddess Kali (as a major rallying symbol of the resistance against colonial rule in India) like it's spanning the practice of "the spiritual is political".
A heart centred practice of expressing (as you describe Sarah) "out - rage" ... the fierce, protective energy (hyena mum) that keeps children safe and fed - as adults encompassing that feminine nurturing for all the world's children not just mothers.
Knowing the information rage provides us and galvanizing it into our active parts in collective movements.
Ghandi wrote in a letter about his interpretations of Kali's symbolism along the lines of destruction of ego which I saw came up in one of your comments below.
Re the spiritual is political ... "What is your inside is your outside, and what you see on the outside, you see revealed on the inside" - Thunder, Perfect Mind 4:30-31
Yes your short comment in response to Madeleine's longer comment... and now I've just re read Madeleine's next beautiful comment following .. exploring ego.
It's conjured up some deep thoughts and questions in me though that didn't really get covered, maybe something for a future talk - or maybe these get covered elsewhere and I need to go seek that out:
If France is having these convos and embracing philosophy and deeper thinking, and historically always has - why is it not demonstrating any better of an example to the world and why is it not being followed - which then begs the question - if any or indeed many countries embrace deeper thinking, spiritual aligned with politics, but the real big powers do not, does it have any effect anyway? Also - France still commits atrocious acts, so even with this approach it is not providing a better model for a future world. It is arguably the birth place of a large part of consumerism after all - they invented department stores, the first places where people could window shop and 'dream' of buying all these material things that they couldn't yet afford.
I get all of the talk and guidance and wisdom but I have still yet to see any kind of 'manifesto' of the future... we need to embrace spirituality and nurse the death and embrace the rebirth etc ... that's great but I think I (and others I talk to) want to see a roadmap of how this looks. Of course we can't make predictions but we talk of modernity needing to die... OK so who is going to have to die - let's make it plain and clear - how many? Which people do we need to get rid of, which people get to survive, if we go to a place of being more wholesome with nature and so on which an ideology I buy into, people will still suffer right, how do we feed the world in that circumstance - we cannot please everyone, it's impossible, so who doesn't get a place at the table in this rebirthed world? On the flip - how do you deserve or earn a place at the table? I think there just needs to be alot more honesty about this - same with managing climate change and all that stuff, nobody is really being honest with what any of that means, it means the end of alot of conveniences we've come to enjoy, it means the end of alot of medicines we are used to because all the plastic goes, it means way less energy, virtually no technological devices - all of the work you yourself do publishing etc, doesn't exist, we live in much smaller communities, the world gets smaller. This is all fine, but it needs to be spelled out properly... Like I say, I want to see a real world manifesto of the future, are we brave enough to show people that yet?
There was talk of great spiritual leaders that have gone before... Buddha, Jesus and so on... but if they were so great and transformative, how are we still here ... in this mess, looking for yet another re-awakening or ANOTHER leader... isn't this just obvious in the repetition of human behaviour that we are destined in this way to always move away from such spirituality? I don't want to believe that, but I look at the evidence and struggle to keep faith in such things. How do we keep landing back in the same place wanting/ needing some 'saviour' whether than be an individual or collectively. Over the history of humanity, nothing that is going on right now is new or different, so don't we just need to accept that? And people use these previous saviours names as a reason for their destructive forces, they believe they are acting in their name etc. So how do we know who the good actors are and who the bad actors are, aside from the very obvious things.
A saviour that comes along speaking truth that there is going to be alot of suffering to get to a fairer more spiritually aligned future, is still a saviour that is telling people there is going to be death and you may not like what's coming... is this any different to a Trump or another who is trying to re-align the world in their image as their own saviour and saying similar things, causing destruction and breaking down institutions etc that he and his collective don't believe in. The next saviour leading to a different world will be no different in principle - breaking down the corporations, the financial players, the modernity institutes to re-align the world in their image?
I just can't figure out how that all looks and how that is any better on moral grounds. Even though ideologically I wish to live in a world that looks much different to this carnage we're in.
Hey Mark, on the France thing...France is no model nation, however it has tended to created ways of being and thinking to help people to traverse tough times (existentialism). Consumerism is certainly not crass or rampant here. People live much more modestly and in much of France the shops are shut on Sunday. There are markers that reflect what I talk about - it's the second least sexist EU nation (this came out this week, after Sweden), life expectancy works against their high smoking rates, the gap btw the rich and poor is much narrower and the social system does in fact look after people.
Regarding a path...much of what I have had to struggle with and what I've written about as a result is not falling for the left brain trap of wanted a fix, a path. The point is that we will have to emerge, instead of over-lording.
I guess a simpler question / thought on my mind is this:
I have two boys at school right now.
How does a school teach children how to emerge so that they don't just replicate and inherit the same fucked up system we're in now. How do they teach connected spirituality etc to break the cycle of relying on answers. What should we be demanding of schools right now since education underpins pretty much everything.
Or is the school and 'teaching' all rather irrelevant as teaching is about telling and giving answers soooo... that method doesn't work either as there is no path or answer.
Humour my really simplistic parent role-play for a second...
"Son we need to learn to emerge into a world full of collapse..."
"Ok dad, makes sense, cos yeh, it's shit right now so... how do we do that?"
"Erm.... I don't know, I can't give you any actions, there is no answer... but we must do it anyway... it will just happen OK, have faith"
For my son (ND), he isn't going to have a clue what I'm even having that conversation for. I'm offering no guidance what so ever.
I'm sounding very pedantic and ridiculous here for sure, I know that, it's a stupid way to ask a question but I operate based on role modelling to my children, rather than simply telling them stuff, it doesn't wash with them, too clever, too in tune with fairness and so on (which I agree with), change starts with me as a parent... they have no trust in the school system at all - today my eldest returned and told me, even the teachers disagree with the whole system and they are sick of it - and they are telling the kids this... so he's asking me what's the point of it.
They understand all the good moral stuff, gratitude, kindness, looking after our place in the environment and so on etc but none of this changes the system or demonstrates a way of life that is sustainable for the future of collapse and so on.
They are not going to 'emerge' through anything unless I can demonstrate what that might look like in practise. And ultimately this is my fear speaking. Throwing them into a great unknown without being able to provide them with the skills to be ready for that.
Mark, perhaps you can just focus on demonstrating the good moral stuff? Encourage and foster curiosity and excitement for the aspects of school that make sense eg fostering community, cooperation etc. I feel you are still (and this is not to accuse you of anything, it's just an invite) expecting a "fix" rather than embodying the agency yourself. The neoliberal system ironically makes us so dependent on the (faulty) system saving us...we have to let go of this, but without descending into individualism (which is the alternative neoliberalism offers). What's the question that your son asks that prompts you to reply, "Son we need to learn to emerge into a world full of collapse..."?
I do. I’ve spent my whole life doing the good moral stuff and I am definitely in a mode of questioning the point of it all right now. Been trying so hard to make sense of it, so many people reaching out to be at this time of year, it takes a toll cos I just want to give my time. Some of this response is born from that frustration, it’s not aimed at you, or questioning the message etc. just trying to process thr reality I suppose.
Thank you for your patience and replies. It means alot.
frustration alert: He doesn’t learn any of that stuff at school, he’s in a small SEMH unit for Send pupils purely to ensure he can get an attendance tick to satisfy government policy to maintain high attendance levels. It’s a joke, I’d make you fall asleep if I went into the detail of the past 18 month journey navigating the high school system and how it has broken every bit of joy and self confidence etc in him. It’s taken every bit of energy in me to help him with this, to try to role model, ‘events happen that we cannot control, we can only control our response to that’ (even that I question, do we really ‘control’ our emotional response)
I’ve had to understand all of the legal underpinings of the school system etc with the threats we receive as parents, and the fear it has generated in him. Panic attacks, anxiety, suicidal thoughts and on and on. He described school as a prison system. There is no teaching of community or coorporation at all. It’s turn up, do as your told. Blah blah blah. I’ve been full circle in all of this… zoom out, bigger picture, don’t rely on the system, i’ve never expected a fix from the system, I wouldn’t trust a fix from the system anyway, even if it was offered, but we are made to be in it, home education has been explored (that’s a whole other minefield, still an open door that I may need to quit my job to explore). I don’t believe in being a victim in all of this, it has brought on a great deal of personal development so I am grateful for the challenges, it has helped me step up to help others who don’t have my capacity for knowledge and understanding legal issues to share that with them and aid them with their struggles. I know it will eventually make my son stronger when he can see it and feel it. He’s mandated to be in education until he’s 18, that’s another 6 yrs. When his own teacher is telling him this is pointless… how do you inspire anything from that? I keep on… day by day, i continue, of course, what else is there to do.
I know there is no fix. I don’t mean it like that.
My question was a reflection on your final sentence… you said we must learn to emerge…
So i was just doing a very simple role play of that… we have to emerge.. ok so how do I teach him emergence… especially when he has very little hope left in him from the destructive systems he is in as well as navigating teenage transformation, hormonal change and so on.
Brain development and child psychology tells us from age 8 a child steps away from their parents being the primary source of influence and truth etc… they look to their peers and others, they are becoming indepdent beings and a parent has very little influence over that, no matter what I say/do/role model etc. yeh he sees it and hears it but its largely ignored as he is developing his own world, not living in my shadow.
Last night he said to me… “Dad, you know you’re crackers right… there’s definitely no mistaking your autism (not diagnosed but we’ve explored the behaviours around it etc together) cos you’re properly mad, and weird and you ask ridiculous questions but you are NOT FUNNY! (this was after I’d just done a stupid dad dance around the room singing a made up song about the meaning of life or something)” I said, “yeh but you love it really” and he just looked at me with that teenage death stare… and a long “hhmmmm” I think there was a wry smile when he turned around though… maybe?
I hear your pain and frustration. You are looking for a map and instead you are being asked to trust or as Jesus say’s “watch and pray “.
I have found Nate Hagens “The Great Simpification” helpful in explaining how we got to this point and then helpful in formulating trust that a plan will emerge.
Being kindness and compassion and ready to act is a good mode to usher in anything.
I find the I Ching idea that “life happens at the edge” also helps me to sit in the chaos and look out for the dynamic shifts that Life constucts.
I trust your search for peace in all this comes soon.❤️
Thank you for your kind words. I think my communication has been a little bit off the past couple of days. Lots of emotional toil going on in my life, very little sleep at the mo. It’s been a good test to endure, my words have been muddled with thoughts that are not entirely mine, in the sense that sometimes I am playing devil’s advocate, channelling things and questions that have been thrown at me by those I talk to. So sometimes this is frustration coming through my comments not from me directly, from others that I hear and absorb and I can’t always provide help or guidance to.
Truth from me, I don’t seek a map, I never have, I have prayed for answers or signs or guidance before, many times in my life, for sure, but I know the answers are already present in me because ultimately… I don’t know… there is no way to know. Only the creator knows, perhaps, maybe not. But it’s arrogant of me to expect to know.
I act with kindness, compassion and forgiveness, always. It causes great pain to be this way. My first substack post is a memory of when I first discovered Mother Teresa’s poem… this grounded me and resonated deeply all those years ago. But I’ve been like this even as a child. My Mum believes me to be an earth angel, for the pain i take from others, for my gift, I like the idea, but I don’t believe it, that’s her interpretation, that’s fine. As I just posted in reply to Madeleine, whatever gift I have isn’t mine, it came from the creator, I can only try my best to use it as I am prompted to, I sit in great comfort even through death and destruction that it will all be ok in the end.
What pains me ultimately is that pull to want to protect everyone and everything I care about … which ultimately spreads out to all things really, because I love all equally. Even the fascists. I am not in any position to judge, that’s not my place. I can only love and be kind and be patient and understand and bear witness. As much as I want to protect, and help and do more, I am only one part in this great universe, we all have our calling, we all have to learn suffering. I am OK with that deep within me, but the pull on the surface naturally wants to do more, that restlessness is part of my gift that I am borrowing, restlessness is empowering, but it needs great care to use it wisely, I hold faith in that everything will be ok in the end, it is why everything is just right at all times, right now, in this moment, all is as it should be.
The peace is always with me, because I accept that everything is possible. I am open to that. Peace is all things in equilibrium, all emotive callings, all actions, all thoughts. It is all as it should be and always will be.
I’m grateful for your message and to Sarah and her guests and everyone else here and in the world, that allow me this space and allows the clarity to come through in moments of doubt.
I like France as a place, always have, we were in Paris with my two boys last year and I could only dream of living there but I think it's still very far away from being anything worth idolising for a sense of what will emerge in the future. When I was a teenager I experienced a very different side to France when visiting with my step-dad at the time who was of Algerian descent. The treatment of Muslims shook me terribly at the time, the places he took me to where folks lived and the 2nd class citizenship around it all was very bizarre as a white boy. So I reserve judgement on alot of things about France.
I get the need to emerge, not to look for specific answers... but emerging is still requiring a leader right - hence Marianne going for president and the discussion around Saviours and such... so a leader needs followers and followers need something to follow... you see what I mean.. so how can we get people to place faith in following something that is just a mystery? What does a leader like Marianne, being president actually look like. I mean... day to day... giving instructions on what to do, running departments, healthcare, complex systems etc, do you just tear them all down? I think this is what people struggled with the likes of Corbyn in the UK - he was a bit more explicit with actions, and that spooked alot of people at the time. I liked alot of what he stood for, the people weren't brave enough to embrace that sort of change and to me, it's not even that radical.
I observe people like Zack and so on.. these little pockets of movement, it's admirable, not really that radical though, still toeing the line largely and not being too truthful about what is coming and what needs to happen to emerge to a different world... You spell out these things more than any kind of political leader has so far as I can see, which I appreciate as it's a level of honesty we need, grown up conversation.
But still... emerging... yeh, I'm OK with that, but explaining that to others to get them on board... they just look at me like I'm a nut job around where I live so I don't see any change happening anytime soon. People still by and large want clear instructions and being told what to do, even if they don't necessarily like it, it at least gives them something to push back on.
I don't think what Marianne and I are proposing folk follow is a mystery. it's more concrete than the "rising ships..." promise.
I think what you're wresting with her, perhaps, is you think that emergence will operate from a top down leader. This is not how hive mind works. I agree that "explaining" this to people is hard unless people can see you living it, being an agent of change in the choir...
I get that. I live it, but it doesn’t affect change on anybody else around me, therefore pointless in a ‘hive’ mindset. I am simply a weirdo and the odd one out. Which I’m fine with in myself, it’s not about fitting in, but it does make me wonder about the method of hive and the idea this will move the world to a better place. I guess I just don’t see it.
So we remove all leaders?
Why would you run for president if not to operate as a leader?
There is no perfect example available right now, France like every other country is based around the tribal, feudal, monarchistic, industrial feudalistic, and now technofeudalistic models. Based around the use or abuse of labour/slavery/indebtedness.
But it has managed to , along with Sweden and some other countries to maintain some traditions and moral codes which are good guard rails. Simple things like rest, digest and connect on a Sunday. Even the labour market, while always open to exploitation, seems to be more in balance where the apprentice to master route is still slightly in place.
But the line between good and evil crosses through every human heart. So it is our decisions in the day to day which dictates our own future and the collectives.
Like you say , everyone knows it is broken, the kids especially and the teachers who spend more time with our kids then we do.
The good thing is , our own spirit knows the way forward. It knows what is just , you see it in your children.
So us as adults can demonstrate to the kids how to self regulate and co regulate respectfully.
For example , my daughter goes to a fairly rough school with heaps of kids whose parents are active drug addicts or addicts of delusions or distractions. I spoke to Mikas class leader and she is on the ball, sees Mika very well and how to help her. She is doing her best , but she is stretched.
My daughter is being sent to school without school books or pens. I don’t even know if she was given any by her mum. Now she doesn’t even bother to take a bag , just her purse and her phone.
Her mum is trying her best but is oblivious to what is occurring for so many reasons.
And I stand to the side watching it , a wreck of anxiety and wanting to just walk away. But as a parent you know that is impossible.
All of this is such an illustration of society as a whole. And all it takes is for me to say , hey guys, can we talk for a moment please. And for me to do the simple things each day which allow me to be vibrant, present and available.
My worry is… the ‘switched on’ folks… we are only helping in an individual manner, you and your daughter, me and my sons… this is far away from helping on a collective scale and that is what is needed.
Individuals doing things ‘right’ does nothing, unless it inspires a collective movement, right now… around me, in my locality that is not happening and I struggle to connect with people here and to demonstrate a more grounded way forward… I have to hide so much of who and what i am and what I stand for just to try to survive in some manner. It’s a struggle I am happy to embrace and face head on but its tedious for sure.
All we can do is hold the space. Keep on going. Keep on trying. All i need is a look in my kids eyes and I know. Or not even their eyes tbh, I live opposite a school, the kids pass by my house every day when I’m working and they inspire me to keep going. I regularly leave out little postcards and badges and stuff that I make for them to collect and stuff… maybe the messages do spread and have an impact. I don’t know. They always shout thank you… but the parents all think I’m a nut job.
Jesus is a long stretch , but Christ energy is a good thing to feel. And remember even Jesus lost his shit. Why have you foresaken me and all that jazz, and he was dumb enough to trust in god and Judas 🤦🏻♂️ walk gently and carry a big stick.
And leaders as well as snakes emerge in chaos, so be patient and proactive
Sorry if this all sounds negative and skeptical. It's how the words came out of me in that moment. My neuro-spiciness is all over the shop this morning swinging wildly around. Having a deep dive convo with my cousin alongside all of this as he preaches Jesus is the answer and trying to convince me that if I just believe all will be well and I will feel his love etc so hence the kind of shove in there about saviours, not a non-believer, not a believer, agnostic perhaps or Theism... I'm not sure but yeh, just trying to add some context to my probing and kind of making sense of it all ...
I probably want to know if it's my head that needs chopping off too... in your reference about bro's sitting around meditating and chilling... I mean if that's what needs to happen for the greater good of the world I'll do it myself for the sake of humanity.
Sounds like the panic that Sarah and others are feeling.
But the more we look after ourselves and watch that part of ourselves which becomes righteous or wants to hide away the better it will be.
Keep being weird , if the kids get it then it is genuine, if they avoided you then there is your answer. You are off track. Nothing is more honest than a babies eyes, a dogs demenour, or our own hearts
For me it becomes almost a hyper focus , I lock onto the systems analysis and actually become what feels like more embodied. But it is too much for those around me. I need to consider them and their nervous systems in my communication
But there is something that Marianne said. About meditation alone is pointless , meditation and movement is needed. Come back to grace and then move.
That is all we need to do , and the rest falls into place.
Don’t be or follow the religion, guru or grifter who spends their days in the gym , the temple or the podcast studio. Avoiding life and escaping into the material or spiritual world.
Become Jesus amongst the people , chop wood, gather water, feed the kids, get them to bed. And then cry and make love to your beloved and now sleep
I honestly struggle with the ‘and the rest falls into place’ thing.
I don’t see that happening. I think it needs something bigger, I think for collective change, people do still need a leader and some sort of guidance into a new realm. Not just from one individual to another, that doesn’t grab hold with me, I wish it did but I don’t see it. But i hear Sarah’s point too about not over-lording it, not forcing it sort of thing… i get the emergence and organic nature, I do, but something eats away inside that we can see all of this… we are in tune to all this going on, shouldn’t we be doing more?
I don’t agree with becoming Jesus, but I think Iunderstand the sentiment you are going for. I’m not Christian myself but family and friends are, including my wife and in-laws… to try to be Jesus is quite a problem as it suggests being the messiah and almighty. None of us can be Jesus in that sense. But I know what you mean in terms of be the model and spread the word and people will follow sort of thing? If that is what you mean?
Picking up on one of your points here....I really do hear you on the "shouldn't we be doing more" front. Part of where we're at is radically accepting our "doing" won't be "fixing" anything now. There is a sweet spot where we are engaged in the choir, active, caring, showing up...and we settle into the wise acceptance of where we're at so that....we can be the full humans in our full humanity to ...engage, show up etc. It's a strange dance...but it's actually the true dance of our species, I feel. Keep going Mark. The questions, the care...THAT is part of it. I have to tell myself the same thing.
Yes, that's a distinction I'm starting to feel settled with - 'doing' is not 'fixing'. But the actions are useful still.
I love this series of books, not sure if you have come across them before, fantastic little practical guides for those that want to 'do': https://thedobook.co/
I've always thought there's an author missing in this series - you.
Not sure what your 'DO' subject would be though... maybe.. DO: Collapse?
I have long felt this, Mark -- that I should be doing more. When I tried that, though, I burned out.
Truth be told, Jesus actually spent a great deal of his earthly life managing people's disappointment in him. People were constantly, constantly, disappointed in him. People wanted him to be the warrior avenger who led the resistance against the empire and the religious institution that aligned itself with the Roman colonizers. He never even healed everyone that needed it. He was just not what most people wanted. But he entered into relationship with people who he encountered, allowing them agency, freedom, and teaching them how to see themselves: as beloved and worthy of love.
Do you use your art to express these longings, questions, and complexities on your heart?
Thank you. Have been thinking about this for the past few days. He also always called people back into community with everything he did. All of the healings, etc were also restorations of relationship and community. And even then it wasn't bliss; these folks had to go right back into the world that caused the pain or wound, or at least made it worse, and that ran on the systems of alienation and oppression that disenfranchised the least of these. I am wondering more and more if a powerful form of activism against fascism actively looks like radically elevating the lowest in society.
Yeh, that’s understandable. I think I get like this because I used to be alot more pro-active in younger years, was able to do more. But now with the kids and family and elderly parents as well as working full time it just can lead to frustration really… i have all this stuff i want to do, so many people I want to talk to and meet with and community projects and groups i want to be part of, but I can’t because yes time is limited but so is energy and I do burn out too when I throw too many things into the pot. I can also end up dis-regarding those closest to me… my wife and children… in the pursuit of other things and that can be quite upsetting. These are people I love and care for but in trying to do more good in community, I forget about their needs and desire for my time too. I often want to be cloned. There’s simply too much that needs doing and nobody is stepping up and doing it. Too many people just sitting around idle and it does frustrate me.
I do use my creative practise for expression when I really need to, I let that be guided in its own way though, I can never force it, even when I want to. Words, poems, postcards I create and stuff they all help yeh and I often then leave things around for people to collect… so like… passing these things on, I don’t see any point in creating something that just exists for me, it should be out there in the world and perhaps that helps, perhaps they just get destroyed by nature, then so be it…
I assure you wholeheartedly that people are finding those little bits of beauty and reverencing of humanity and that a little healing takes place. And that some will be inspired to listen to the voice of vocation in their lives because of it. I've come to an interesting understanding in it all: loving into our families and friends and those in our closest circles IS activism; it is active resistance to the forces that want to isolate people from one another and our humanity in order to stay in a constant state of fear and competition.
Here’s a little example… this was in Summer, that beautiful tree with the hand carved secret door has since been cut down which is really sad.
Funny how the world works though, about two weeks after I had left this poem on the tree, I was on a photography walk and got chatting to a lady and she saw a badge I was wearing and asked me if I was the Mr Arteest guy and I said yes and she said ‘oh wow, I found your poem in the park the other day, it made me cry and smile all at the same time’ she’d taken a photo of it so showed me and told me a story about why it helped her and how she would pass it on to others… so sometimes I do get lifted by a lovely story like this but I usually prefer to just stay anonymous, I really struggle to take any glory ot compliment from things, it never really resonates with me, feel like a fraud or something. I don’t know why. Probably because of that feeling that this is all too little and useless in the grand scheme of things.
Some lovely words from my friend on this Friday , after witnessing such a lovely chat.
It’s a lot , but it is also very very simple. It’s a long way back. But do not allow your heart to be restricted by our limited sense of reality.
There is always time for what is important. Time stretches and morphs to ensure that love and connections is possible. It collapses and becomes scarce when we are doing the opposite.
One simple act by one simple person reverberates out far beyond what we can comprehend
Hearts expand, love grows, joy arrives. Double 6/Venus makes contact with 3/Jupiter and this multiplies love in all its forms (not just romance yea). As we are in a waning moon nearing the end of the year as well as the end of the 9 year cycle we are in the dispersion and completion phase with this. What that means is a letting go is required. For some of us this means releasing a person/attachment, a feeling, an expectation, a too hard shell, the need for control or a way of doing & being in relationships which does not help but instead repels the real love we desire.
Anything that blocks the ability of love to come through for you has to be said goodbye to. This goes double for the love we give ourselves. Be generous and kind with you. Shower yourself in the level of love you yearn to receive. And give it heartily to your people.
Thank you Sarah for a powerful Interview. I've yet to read the comments below and will come back to do so. I was able to tune into the Live and will re-listen however I don't feel Marianne's overall message is "the spiritual is always political" ... but rather - the political needs to be spiritual - and in it's simplest form that then would address on a personal level our anxiety and emotional healing, forgiveness and letting go, living in the moment, moving through our dark times etc. plus the broader cultural and global crisis of war, poverty, climate change etc. and a turning towards peace.
I have followed Marianne viz her iconic book A Return to Love (which is based on the principles of A Course in Miracles which as Marianne mentioned this book are like a Cliff Notes to the ACIM) for over 30 years and in short what I've gleaned from those teachings is a kind of mantra for me - "love over fear in any situation". A Return to Love book her talks on ACIM etc have been a lifeline for me (and I know many others) guiding me through most challenging time of my life; with love over fear. The quote 'Our Deepest Fear' often attributed to Nelson Mandala (he quoted that in his inaugural speech) comes from the book A Return to Love. On a side note, I read somewhere that Gabor Mate is doing the lessons on ACIM, which by the way it's not easy to follow the lessons and the text is very heavy that is why the teachers on a ACIM can be helpful.
What I gleaned from the interview that was also helpful - Marianne mentioned start with what we can do on a daily basis - so being kind to others, showing compassion etc. and at the same time calling out the wrongs and taking some action within our power is powerful. While Marianne may not on her socials address the Gaza crisis (and I don't take that lightly) she is still "teaching" me - where am I not doing enough in this situation etc. So for example I will not go to MW's socials for her guidance on the Middle East (although compared to other spiritual leaders of the day she does speak out), but yes to politics and yes the meditations, lessons on inner peace and coming from a space of love. At the end of the day we are human, and what Marianne can offer as guidance to the individual and a nation is paramount. I would love to hear more from Marianne. Deep gratitude to you Sarah.
Really enjoyed this conversation about the political being spiritual . I thought Marianne was on the money on what is needed now . I have revised my view of her and am going to investigate her substack...showing how it's so good to re assess .
We are all in the process of change and all our voices are needed now.
Thank you Sarah. I was grateful to catch this conversation and be able to listen in live. I’m very interested in her new book and adding it to my mid-life library! I would love to hear you both discuss that and more!
Mark, I'm not sure if this gets at the spirit of your observations and questions, but the bit of the conversation I was able to listen to really made me think that moving forward right now is an incarnational thing: it requires us to face ourselves and heal as individuals so that our hearts and minds can be true homes for love, gentleness, patience, humility -- essentially the same values with which we'd like to be treated. We can only instill these things in our public dialogue to the extent that we've made room for them in our own lives. What will emerge will come through our taking responsibility for our lives, and healing, because when we do that our eyes and hearts are open to recognizing what love can do, and by taking our part in the vast web of life -- our vocations, if you will. We are honest about our sufferings and we name the truth, but we choose a better way than spiraling in victimhood or projection.
I've just become certified as an End of Life Doula after a 6 month intensive program. The number one thing that is repeated over and over and over in the program is that it is not just essential, but absolutely critical to our work that we are rigorously self aware about what we carry inside. It is the filter through which we see everything. We must know ourselves and have deep compassion towards ourselves. We must examine where guilt, pain, and sorrow live in us so that we can truly sit with others in theirs in this time of sorrow, loss, and rage, and to not centre our own sorrow and loss in all that we do. Otherwise it will bury us. But it's the only way to get to the love inside. In my experience, it's the only way to be with the world right now in its vulnerability and fragility, and to truly see one another as blessed and beloved, worthy of respect, compassion, and hospitality of heart.
You might really love the written work of Frank Ostaseki. His approach to life is so tender and powerful. He's got a neat online event happening next year that focuses on service: https://frankostaseski.com/events/
Personally, "The Work" by Byron Katie is also a resource that has helped me get perspective on my tendency to be overwhelmed by my own pain, especially when things feel so bleak. I've just started using it and helps me understand my own thinking and emotional tendencies in a way that little else has. It's in learning from people who've done this work already that I am finding I can be a true "apprentice to sorrow" as Francis Weller says, and have my eyes become accustomed to the dark and see the glittering rivers of joy embedded in what so often otherwise just simply hurts.
Thanks Madeleine - Frank was on Wild some time back too. I'll dig up the episode. I've always taken incarnation to mean quite specifically something that transposes in another life/time. Do you mean it as an ego death that occurs in this lifetime allowing for new life?
Maybe re: ego death is getting at it? I'd have to think about that a bit more, because it's my "self" that I celebrate and love. I think of incarnation as a radical trust in the power of love and its creative impulse, and how self-offering flows out of that. It's an ontological thing. Like, I look at my hands, and think: how can these actually BE love? How can this flesh and bone and pumping blood in me and brain activity actually be, actually enflesh love and what I believe is the meaning of it all? In what ways do they need to move and what things do they need to do so that they are animated by the life force that breaks open the seeds in dark soil, or that holds the spinning planets in their ellipses, a "yes" response to how genetic material and breath and soul have conspired to form Maddie in this time and in this place? What does that ask of me; what response is the most honest one when "to be" is a blessing or when it feels like a curse, because it can, sometimes, for all of us?
My understanding is grounded in my faith, for sure. This poem by Therese of Avila gets at the heart of what my understanding of incarnation is:
Christ has no body but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which he looks
Compassion on this world,
Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good,
Yours are the hands, with which he blesses all the world.
Yours are the hands, yours are the feet,
Yours are the eyes, you are his body.
Christ has no body now but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which he looks
compassion on this world.
Christ has no body now on earth but yours.
But, because I am human, actually living into this requires me to have the same grace towards myself that God has, because as a human being, my capacities to be the hands and heart and feet and eyes of God are finite and also formed in my fears, shame, judgements, etc. The self offering to incarnate love is imperfect, and that is ok. Love is never about perfection or flawlessness. The honesty around it is a state of grace.
Incarnation, I think, has more to do with tethering our egos to grace than it is with the ego dying, per se. Cole Arthur Riley has a profound explanation of incarnation in her book This Here Flesh. She is talking about how our understanding of God is so often more formed by our own judgements and fears about disconnection and worthlessness than by truly looking at what God does in Scripture as a sign of the infinite tenderness and mercy of God's heart. This is my favourite part of what she writes: “On the day the world began to die, God became a seamstress. This is the moment in the Bible that I wish we talked about more often. When Eve and Adam eat from the tree, and decay and despair begin to creep in, when they learn to hide from their own bodies, when they learn to hide from each other—no one ever told me the story of a God who kneels and makes clothes out of animal skin for them.” It changes the entire way we consider love when we look at things this way. Love just flows from God because God can't NOT love. It's not in God to do. So love seeks chaos and pain and shame because God aligns God's self with those in chaos and pain; love is the wellspring that bursts forth from the waters of creation that are always holding us as we participate in our own becoming, that God yells "is GOOD!!!" and that love flows to where love is not, because it can't not do that. My work is to remember this, to keep my heart open to this as best I can.
So, in response to fascism, and as an embodied activism, incarnation is many things: courage with a heartbeat; making a sacrifice of our fears and judgements; it is a love that watches, responds to specific needs, elevates and reverences what neoliberal forces consider lowly or expendable, and can't be argued with because in being tethered to grace, it's the act of love that is centered, and not us. It is being a living sacrifice, as best we can, where we are.
Edited to add: And the sacrifice that incarnation invites us to make is sacrificing a need for vindication or to "win"; our need to depend on external circumstances we can't control as the way to re-connect us to our humanity and the preciousness of our selves, and our own life-force (for example, waiting for justice to visit the tech bros as a way to quell rage). It is to surrender to a deeper and more ancient, foundational way of spirit -- an alignment with the force that wove things into being. Incarnation is taking the shape of who we need to be in our unique lives to allow this force to flow through us. In some ways, it harkens back to what Ian McGilchrist was saying about the left brain being in service to the right brain. Incarnation is a practice of the left, ego driven capacities being in service to the right, connected, "I am because we are" capacities.
Thank you M, I'll need some downtime to read the above and appreciate fully. Thx for responding to my question so fully.
TBH all of what I wrote here & in additional comments became yesterday’s homily
Madeleine, everytime i read this something new hits me. Thank you for taking the time to formulate this. The dynamic thar God cant not love is so powerful for me.i will carrytis today❤️
Jocelyn, I will walk in the grace of this beautiful message this week. How are you feeling these days? Was thinking of you today after reading this & your heart -- I'll write a private message.
Madeleine I started reading Mary Magdalene Revealed and came across this part of the Gospel of Philip "What you say, you say in a body, you can say nothing outside this body. You must awaken while in this body, for everything exists in it: Resurrect in this life". That last part is what I relate to with what you said Sarah of "ego death that occurs in this lifetime allowing for new life". But I just love how this challenges the many times/ways people receive messages of shame about the body.
I liked what Meggan Watterson says "the body is the soul's chance to be here" .
So I understand incarnation as being "embodied in flesh" enough to know the divine centre of our being and seek to live from that place now as much as possible, both "human and holy" (MW) body and soul. That the critical part is differentiating what is ego, while knowing it's a construction and not who we really are "if we lose it all"...that what is left is a divine eternal being connected to the whole.
Yes!!! Incarnation is entirely in this lifetime. And what is really interesting (and painful) is that one of the first moves of autocracy, fascism etc. is to police women’s bodies. TBH Jesus is the opposite of this. When the woman who anointed his feet presented herself to him as she would a husband by taking off her head covering and washing his feet with her hair, and the disciples tried to shut it down/shame her, Jesus told the disciples to chill the eff out & that her self offering was holy. And he settled right into ease and receptivity. Jesus never once, never ever, did anything other than honour and delight in women’s bodies. Part of incarnation is living out of that truth in the now. It’s valorous.
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/frank-ostaseski-how-to-live-fully-when-it-feels-like/id1548626341?i=1000659445325
I think that this was one of my favourites of the episodes I have had the opportunity to hear.
So agree Madeleine,
“The vast web of life” hits me.
During the conversation between Sarah and Marianne, I also kept thinking about how we need to make space for Wonder in our lives.
I think there is a dynamic to life that actually responds and interacts with us and when we ponder the wonder of that life becomes easier.
The wonder ripples through the web.
A great conversation Sarah❤️
I often get that "cosmic insignificance" feeling where the realisation hits me - this can be playful!
This is a beautiful explanation of the wonder and beauty of love, Madeleine. God made us out of love, we are loved by the trinity simply because we were created out of love by love and to love. But we can only love when we understand ourselves, accept ourselves and love ourselves.
Big love, dear Madeleine. And thank you for the references too.
Big love to you, too. How are you feeling these days? Sending you love and energy for restoration in all ways.
I've been a long time follower of Marianne's, so it was fantastic to hear the two of you speak together for this needed conversation. Sarah, she really answered the question you posed last week, did she not? During this time, we can't check out, we can't spiritually bypass. And at the same time, you don't need to scroll or remain laser focused on the news all day each day. You remain diligent and sober in every way, in order to be alert and help where needed. You become an absolute athlete, and in order to do that you cultivate some major spiritual practices. And you do it day in, day out. For me, this is the only way I will be able to remain mentally healthy enough to be of benefit to be a death doula, and a midwife for what's to come.
I am very interested in hearing what Marianne's specific practice recommendations are. Thanks again to you both!
Every time someone says we MUST get spiritually vigilant to be of service, I lighten up...I need the invite to be more vigilant. Which tells me this is precisely where I need to be.
That point really hit home to me Amanda, don't check out but don't remain laser focused on the news....watching every single video that comes across your SM feed.
it's finding the sweet spot...modulating, remaining alive, not numb and acquiescent
It's really taken me awhile to find that sweet spot....with the pendulum swinging wildly in both directions.
I loved this chat, so inspiring! This is one I'll need to watch again to really absorb all the wonderful wisdom Marianne imparts. Such a shame about the tech glitch. I would love to see another chat between you too whenever you can tee it up.
noted x
I loved the way the conversation begins with Mahatma Ghandi and ends with Goddess Kali (as a major rallying symbol of the resistance against colonial rule in India) like it's spanning the practice of "the spiritual is political".
A heart centred practice of expressing (as you describe Sarah) "out - rage" ... the fierce, protective energy (hyena mum) that keeps children safe and fed - as adults encompassing that feminine nurturing for all the world's children not just mothers.
Knowing the information rage provides us and galvanizing it into our active parts in collective movements.
Ghandi wrote in a letter about his interpretations of Kali's symbolism along the lines of destruction of ego which I saw came up in one of your comments below.
Re the spiritual is political ... "What is your inside is your outside, and what you see on the outside, you see revealed on the inside" - Thunder, Perfect Mind 4:30-31
Ah yes, fun observation (re the Ghandi to Kali connect).
You're referring to Madeleine's comment on ego death?
Yes your short comment in response to Madeleine's longer comment... and now I've just re read Madeleine's next beautiful comment following .. exploring ego.
SARAH.
so much more to write about
At lightening speeds
The quickening of the patriarchial shitfuckery
The tom silvagni fiasco. Sooo disappoibted esp in his mother Jo.
Mum believe sons. Sickening.
Crap journalism. Again.
INTERNALISED MISOGYNY.
AND BRittany Higgins made bankruot by linda fkng reynolds.
What a nasty piece of work she is.
Moloch in full play right now.
Everywhere
So sad and still. I am always surprised when i see women turning on women.
The sisterhood out the window.
X
Ah, the sisterhood is not out the window, it's being challenged! Keep on going...I'm choosing to! x
Thankyou for the reminder
Im choosing also
Need more in my face
Xxx
Sorry re bondi
Thought of you
As a weirdo for details,
The man seemed to ve disarmwd quite easily. But what a hero!!!
And wondering what happe ed to rock man.
The guy who threw the rock
Like many things.
Many layers
Lives lost. Horrific.
My worry. Gov excuse to take away more righta
It is
Triggera everywhere r.n
Time 4 brave hearts indeed.
P.s that comment was written BEFORe BONDI
Seems a lifetime ago
Anyone elae feel like things are speeding up and up
This is the crash before the calm.
As m teresa said
People will be cruel and u reasonable. So good anyway. X
((( menopause rage. And loss of self. Does. Not help r.n ))
Xoo
Great conversation, thanks again Sarah.
It's conjured up some deep thoughts and questions in me though that didn't really get covered, maybe something for a future talk - or maybe these get covered elsewhere and I need to go seek that out:
If France is having these convos and embracing philosophy and deeper thinking, and historically always has - why is it not demonstrating any better of an example to the world and why is it not being followed - which then begs the question - if any or indeed many countries embrace deeper thinking, spiritual aligned with politics, but the real big powers do not, does it have any effect anyway? Also - France still commits atrocious acts, so even with this approach it is not providing a better model for a future world. It is arguably the birth place of a large part of consumerism after all - they invented department stores, the first places where people could window shop and 'dream' of buying all these material things that they couldn't yet afford.
I get all of the talk and guidance and wisdom but I have still yet to see any kind of 'manifesto' of the future... we need to embrace spirituality and nurse the death and embrace the rebirth etc ... that's great but I think I (and others I talk to) want to see a roadmap of how this looks. Of course we can't make predictions but we talk of modernity needing to die... OK so who is going to have to die - let's make it plain and clear - how many? Which people do we need to get rid of, which people get to survive, if we go to a place of being more wholesome with nature and so on which an ideology I buy into, people will still suffer right, how do we feed the world in that circumstance - we cannot please everyone, it's impossible, so who doesn't get a place at the table in this rebirthed world? On the flip - how do you deserve or earn a place at the table? I think there just needs to be alot more honesty about this - same with managing climate change and all that stuff, nobody is really being honest with what any of that means, it means the end of alot of conveniences we've come to enjoy, it means the end of alot of medicines we are used to because all the plastic goes, it means way less energy, virtually no technological devices - all of the work you yourself do publishing etc, doesn't exist, we live in much smaller communities, the world gets smaller. This is all fine, but it needs to be spelled out properly... Like I say, I want to see a real world manifesto of the future, are we brave enough to show people that yet?
There was talk of great spiritual leaders that have gone before... Buddha, Jesus and so on... but if they were so great and transformative, how are we still here ... in this mess, looking for yet another re-awakening or ANOTHER leader... isn't this just obvious in the repetition of human behaviour that we are destined in this way to always move away from such spirituality? I don't want to believe that, but I look at the evidence and struggle to keep faith in such things. How do we keep landing back in the same place wanting/ needing some 'saviour' whether than be an individual or collectively. Over the history of humanity, nothing that is going on right now is new or different, so don't we just need to accept that? And people use these previous saviours names as a reason for their destructive forces, they believe they are acting in their name etc. So how do we know who the good actors are and who the bad actors are, aside from the very obvious things.
A saviour that comes along speaking truth that there is going to be alot of suffering to get to a fairer more spiritually aligned future, is still a saviour that is telling people there is going to be death and you may not like what's coming... is this any different to a Trump or another who is trying to re-align the world in their image as their own saviour and saying similar things, causing destruction and breaking down institutions etc that he and his collective don't believe in. The next saviour leading to a different world will be no different in principle - breaking down the corporations, the financial players, the modernity institutes to re-align the world in their image?
I just can't figure out how that all looks and how that is any better on moral grounds. Even though ideologically I wish to live in a world that looks much different to this carnage we're in.
Hey Mark, on the France thing...France is no model nation, however it has tended to created ways of being and thinking to help people to traverse tough times (existentialism). Consumerism is certainly not crass or rampant here. People live much more modestly and in much of France the shops are shut on Sunday. There are markers that reflect what I talk about - it's the second least sexist EU nation (this came out this week, after Sweden), life expectancy works against their high smoking rates, the gap btw the rich and poor is much narrower and the social system does in fact look after people.
Regarding a path...much of what I have had to struggle with and what I've written about as a result is not falling for the left brain trap of wanted a fix, a path. The point is that we will have to emerge, instead of over-lording.
I guess a simpler question / thought on my mind is this:
I have two boys at school right now.
How does a school teach children how to emerge so that they don't just replicate and inherit the same fucked up system we're in now. How do they teach connected spirituality etc to break the cycle of relying on answers. What should we be demanding of schools right now since education underpins pretty much everything.
Or is the school and 'teaching' all rather irrelevant as teaching is about telling and giving answers soooo... that method doesn't work either as there is no path or answer.
Humour my really simplistic parent role-play for a second...
"Son we need to learn to emerge into a world full of collapse..."
"Ok dad, makes sense, cos yeh, it's shit right now so... how do we do that?"
"Erm.... I don't know, I can't give you any actions, there is no answer... but we must do it anyway... it will just happen OK, have faith"
For my son (ND), he isn't going to have a clue what I'm even having that conversation for. I'm offering no guidance what so ever.
I'm sounding very pedantic and ridiculous here for sure, I know that, it's a stupid way to ask a question but I operate based on role modelling to my children, rather than simply telling them stuff, it doesn't wash with them, too clever, too in tune with fairness and so on (which I agree with), change starts with me as a parent... they have no trust in the school system at all - today my eldest returned and told me, even the teachers disagree with the whole system and they are sick of it - and they are telling the kids this... so he's asking me what's the point of it.
They understand all the good moral stuff, gratitude, kindness, looking after our place in the environment and so on etc but none of this changes the system or demonstrates a way of life that is sustainable for the future of collapse and so on.
They are not going to 'emerge' through anything unless I can demonstrate what that might look like in practise. And ultimately this is my fear speaking. Throwing them into a great unknown without being able to provide them with the skills to be ready for that.
Mark, perhaps you can just focus on demonstrating the good moral stuff? Encourage and foster curiosity and excitement for the aspects of school that make sense eg fostering community, cooperation etc. I feel you are still (and this is not to accuse you of anything, it's just an invite) expecting a "fix" rather than embodying the agency yourself. The neoliberal system ironically makes us so dependent on the (faulty) system saving us...we have to let go of this, but without descending into individualism (which is the alternative neoliberalism offers). What's the question that your son asks that prompts you to reply, "Son we need to learn to emerge into a world full of collapse..."?
I do. I’ve spent my whole life doing the good moral stuff and I am definitely in a mode of questioning the point of it all right now. Been trying so hard to make sense of it, so many people reaching out to be at this time of year, it takes a toll cos I just want to give my time. Some of this response is born from that frustration, it’s not aimed at you, or questioning the message etc. just trying to process thr reality I suppose.
Thank you for your patience and replies. It means alot.
frustration alert: He doesn’t learn any of that stuff at school, he’s in a small SEMH unit for Send pupils purely to ensure he can get an attendance tick to satisfy government policy to maintain high attendance levels. It’s a joke, I’d make you fall asleep if I went into the detail of the past 18 month journey navigating the high school system and how it has broken every bit of joy and self confidence etc in him. It’s taken every bit of energy in me to help him with this, to try to role model, ‘events happen that we cannot control, we can only control our response to that’ (even that I question, do we really ‘control’ our emotional response)
I’ve had to understand all of the legal underpinings of the school system etc with the threats we receive as parents, and the fear it has generated in him. Panic attacks, anxiety, suicidal thoughts and on and on. He described school as a prison system. There is no teaching of community or coorporation at all. It’s turn up, do as your told. Blah blah blah. I’ve been full circle in all of this… zoom out, bigger picture, don’t rely on the system, i’ve never expected a fix from the system, I wouldn’t trust a fix from the system anyway, even if it was offered, but we are made to be in it, home education has been explored (that’s a whole other minefield, still an open door that I may need to quit my job to explore). I don’t believe in being a victim in all of this, it has brought on a great deal of personal development so I am grateful for the challenges, it has helped me step up to help others who don’t have my capacity for knowledge and understanding legal issues to share that with them and aid them with their struggles. I know it will eventually make my son stronger when he can see it and feel it. He’s mandated to be in education until he’s 18, that’s another 6 yrs. When his own teacher is telling him this is pointless… how do you inspire anything from that? I keep on… day by day, i continue, of course, what else is there to do.
I know there is no fix. I don’t mean it like that.
My question was a reflection on your final sentence… you said we must learn to emerge…
So i was just doing a very simple role play of that… we have to emerge.. ok so how do I teach him emergence… especially when he has very little hope left in him from the destructive systems he is in as well as navigating teenage transformation, hormonal change and so on.
Brain development and child psychology tells us from age 8 a child steps away from their parents being the primary source of influence and truth etc… they look to their peers and others, they are becoming indepdent beings and a parent has very little influence over that, no matter what I say/do/role model etc. yeh he sees it and hears it but its largely ignored as he is developing his own world, not living in my shadow.
Last night he said to me… “Dad, you know you’re crackers right… there’s definitely no mistaking your autism (not diagnosed but we’ve explored the behaviours around it etc together) cos you’re properly mad, and weird and you ask ridiculous questions but you are NOT FUNNY! (this was after I’d just done a stupid dad dance around the room singing a made up song about the meaning of life or something)” I said, “yeh but you love it really” and he just looked at me with that teenage death stare… and a long “hhmmmm” I think there was a wry smile when he turned around though… maybe?
Dear Marc,
I hear your pain and frustration. You are looking for a map and instead you are being asked to trust or as Jesus say’s “watch and pray “.
I have found Nate Hagens “The Great Simpification” helpful in explaining how we got to this point and then helpful in formulating trust that a plan will emerge.
Being kindness and compassion and ready to act is a good mode to usher in anything.
I find the I Ching idea that “life happens at the edge” also helps me to sit in the chaos and look out for the dynamic shifts that Life constucts.
I trust your search for peace in all this comes soon.❤️
Thank you for your kind words. I think my communication has been a little bit off the past couple of days. Lots of emotional toil going on in my life, very little sleep at the mo. It’s been a good test to endure, my words have been muddled with thoughts that are not entirely mine, in the sense that sometimes I am playing devil’s advocate, channelling things and questions that have been thrown at me by those I talk to. So sometimes this is frustration coming through my comments not from me directly, from others that I hear and absorb and I can’t always provide help or guidance to.
Truth from me, I don’t seek a map, I never have, I have prayed for answers or signs or guidance before, many times in my life, for sure, but I know the answers are already present in me because ultimately… I don’t know… there is no way to know. Only the creator knows, perhaps, maybe not. But it’s arrogant of me to expect to know.
I act with kindness, compassion and forgiveness, always. It causes great pain to be this way. My first substack post is a memory of when I first discovered Mother Teresa’s poem… this grounded me and resonated deeply all those years ago. But I’ve been like this even as a child. My Mum believes me to be an earth angel, for the pain i take from others, for my gift, I like the idea, but I don’t believe it, that’s her interpretation, that’s fine. As I just posted in reply to Madeleine, whatever gift I have isn’t mine, it came from the creator, I can only try my best to use it as I am prompted to, I sit in great comfort even through death and destruction that it will all be ok in the end.
What pains me ultimately is that pull to want to protect everyone and everything I care about … which ultimately spreads out to all things really, because I love all equally. Even the fascists. I am not in any position to judge, that’s not my place. I can only love and be kind and be patient and understand and bear witness. As much as I want to protect, and help and do more, I am only one part in this great universe, we all have our calling, we all have to learn suffering. I am OK with that deep within me, but the pull on the surface naturally wants to do more, that restlessness is part of my gift that I am borrowing, restlessness is empowering, but it needs great care to use it wisely, I hold faith in that everything will be ok in the end, it is why everything is just right at all times, right now, in this moment, all is as it should be.
The peace is always with me, because I accept that everything is possible. I am open to that. Peace is all things in equilibrium, all emotive callings, all actions, all thoughts. It is all as it should be and always will be.
I’m grateful for your message and to Sarah and her guests and everyone else here and in the world, that allow me this space and allows the clarity to come through in moments of doubt.
It’s really magical.
Sorry for this lengthy wiffle waffle.
A beautiful summary of all that we have been talking about here 🙏🏼 She is excellent and clarifying the issuea and crystallising the answers
I like France as a place, always have, we were in Paris with my two boys last year and I could only dream of living there but I think it's still very far away from being anything worth idolising for a sense of what will emerge in the future. When I was a teenager I experienced a very different side to France when visiting with my step-dad at the time who was of Algerian descent. The treatment of Muslims shook me terribly at the time, the places he took me to where folks lived and the 2nd class citizenship around it all was very bizarre as a white boy. So I reserve judgement on alot of things about France.
I get the need to emerge, not to look for specific answers... but emerging is still requiring a leader right - hence Marianne going for president and the discussion around Saviours and such... so a leader needs followers and followers need something to follow... you see what I mean.. so how can we get people to place faith in following something that is just a mystery? What does a leader like Marianne, being president actually look like. I mean... day to day... giving instructions on what to do, running departments, healthcare, complex systems etc, do you just tear them all down? I think this is what people struggled with the likes of Corbyn in the UK - he was a bit more explicit with actions, and that spooked alot of people at the time. I liked alot of what he stood for, the people weren't brave enough to embrace that sort of change and to me, it's not even that radical.
I observe people like Zack and so on.. these little pockets of movement, it's admirable, not really that radical though, still toeing the line largely and not being too truthful about what is coming and what needs to happen to emerge to a different world... You spell out these things more than any kind of political leader has so far as I can see, which I appreciate as it's a level of honesty we need, grown up conversation.
But still... emerging... yeh, I'm OK with that, but explaining that to others to get them on board... they just look at me like I'm a nut job around where I live so I don't see any change happening anytime soon. People still by and large want clear instructions and being told what to do, even if they don't necessarily like it, it at least gives them something to push back on.
I don't think what Marianne and I are proposing folk follow is a mystery. it's more concrete than the "rising ships..." promise.
I think what you're wresting with her, perhaps, is you think that emergence will operate from a top down leader. This is not how hive mind works. I agree that "explaining" this to people is hard unless people can see you living it, being an agent of change in the choir...
I get that. I live it, but it doesn’t affect change on anybody else around me, therefore pointless in a ‘hive’ mindset. I am simply a weirdo and the odd one out. Which I’m fine with in myself, it’s not about fitting in, but it does make me wonder about the method of hive and the idea this will move the world to a better place. I guess I just don’t see it.
So we remove all leaders?
Why would you run for president if not to operate as a leader?
There is no perfect example available right now, France like every other country is based around the tribal, feudal, monarchistic, industrial feudalistic, and now technofeudalistic models. Based around the use or abuse of labour/slavery/indebtedness.
But it has managed to , along with Sweden and some other countries to maintain some traditions and moral codes which are good guard rails. Simple things like rest, digest and connect on a Sunday. Even the labour market, while always open to exploitation, seems to be more in balance where the apprentice to master route is still slightly in place.
But the line between good and evil crosses through every human heart. So it is our decisions in the day to day which dictates our own future and the collectives.
Like you say , everyone knows it is broken, the kids especially and the teachers who spend more time with our kids then we do.
The good thing is , our own spirit knows the way forward. It knows what is just , you see it in your children.
So us as adults can demonstrate to the kids how to self regulate and co regulate respectfully.
For example , my daughter goes to a fairly rough school with heaps of kids whose parents are active drug addicts or addicts of delusions or distractions. I spoke to Mikas class leader and she is on the ball, sees Mika very well and how to help her. She is doing her best , but she is stretched.
My daughter is being sent to school without school books or pens. I don’t even know if she was given any by her mum. Now she doesn’t even bother to take a bag , just her purse and her phone.
Her mum is trying her best but is oblivious to what is occurring for so many reasons.
And I stand to the side watching it , a wreck of anxiety and wanting to just walk away. But as a parent you know that is impossible.
All of this is such an illustration of society as a whole. And all it takes is for me to say , hey guys, can we talk for a moment please. And for me to do the simple things each day which allow me to be vibrant, present and available.
so simple 🙏🏼🤦🏻♂️😆
I hear you man.
My worry is… the ‘switched on’ folks… we are only helping in an individual manner, you and your daughter, me and my sons… this is far away from helping on a collective scale and that is what is needed.
Individuals doing things ‘right’ does nothing, unless it inspires a collective movement, right now… around me, in my locality that is not happening and I struggle to connect with people here and to demonstrate a more grounded way forward… I have to hide so much of who and what i am and what I stand for just to try to survive in some manner. It’s a struggle I am happy to embrace and face head on but its tedious for sure.
All we can do is hold the space. Keep on going. Keep on trying. All i need is a look in my kids eyes and I know. Or not even their eyes tbh, I live opposite a school, the kids pass by my house every day when I’m working and they inspire me to keep going. I regularly leave out little postcards and badges and stuff that I make for them to collect and stuff… maybe the messages do spread and have an impact. I don’t know. They always shout thank you… but the parents all think I’m a nut job.
Jesus is a long stretch , but Christ energy is a good thing to feel. And remember even Jesus lost his shit. Why have you foresaken me and all that jazz, and he was dumb enough to trust in god and Judas 🤦🏻♂️ walk gently and carry a big stick.
And leaders as well as snakes emerge in chaos, so be patient and proactive
Steve, this reminded me of a song called The Fool pt. 1 by Shad, a Canadian artist:
"Jesus saw Judas and ran up to hug the young brother
It dug at the other eleven
Like "why is this traitor in Heaven"
He said it's Hell on Earth anywhere love isn't present
Wherever he goes, we go together my brethren
Get it?"
That’s powerful, everyone feels it, but the act has not been committed yet. And even if you die, they are the ones left in hell
Sorry if this all sounds negative and skeptical. It's how the words came out of me in that moment. My neuro-spiciness is all over the shop this morning swinging wildly around. Having a deep dive convo with my cousin alongside all of this as he preaches Jesus is the answer and trying to convince me that if I just believe all will be well and I will feel his love etc so hence the kind of shove in there about saviours, not a non-believer, not a believer, agnostic perhaps or Theism... I'm not sure but yeh, just trying to add some context to my probing and kind of making sense of it all ...
I probably want to know if it's my head that needs chopping off too... in your reference about bro's sitting around meditating and chilling... I mean if that's what needs to happen for the greater good of the world I'll do it myself for the sake of humanity.
Sounds like the panic that Sarah and others are feeling.
But the more we look after ourselves and watch that part of ourselves which becomes righteous or wants to hide away the better it will be.
Keep being weird , if the kids get it then it is genuine, if they avoided you then there is your answer. You are off track. Nothing is more honest than a babies eyes, a dogs demenour, or our own hearts
True. I try to look out for signals that my weirdness is turning unapproachable...I have to pull back at times. Restock etc.
Or stop and feel it 😊🙌🏼🍻🕒
For me it becomes almost a hyper focus , I lock onto the systems analysis and actually become what feels like more embodied. But it is too much for those around me. I need to consider them and their nervous systems in my communication
But there is something that Marianne said. About meditation alone is pointless , meditation and movement is needed. Come back to grace and then move.
That is all we need to do , and the rest falls into place.
Don’t be or follow the religion, guru or grifter who spends their days in the gym , the temple or the podcast studio. Avoiding life and escaping into the material or spiritual world.
Become Jesus amongst the people , chop wood, gather water, feed the kids, get them to bed. And then cry and make love to your beloved and now sleep
I honestly struggle with the ‘and the rest falls into place’ thing.
I don’t see that happening. I think it needs something bigger, I think for collective change, people do still need a leader and some sort of guidance into a new realm. Not just from one individual to another, that doesn’t grab hold with me, I wish it did but I don’t see it. But i hear Sarah’s point too about not over-lording it, not forcing it sort of thing… i get the emergence and organic nature, I do, but something eats away inside that we can see all of this… we are in tune to all this going on, shouldn’t we be doing more?
I don’t agree with becoming Jesus, but I think Iunderstand the sentiment you are going for. I’m not Christian myself but family and friends are, including my wife and in-laws… to try to be Jesus is quite a problem as it suggests being the messiah and almighty. None of us can be Jesus in that sense. But I know what you mean in terms of be the model and spread the word and people will follow sort of thing? If that is what you mean?
Picking up on one of your points here....I really do hear you on the "shouldn't we be doing more" front. Part of where we're at is radically accepting our "doing" won't be "fixing" anything now. There is a sweet spot where we are engaged in the choir, active, caring, showing up...and we settle into the wise acceptance of where we're at so that....we can be the full humans in our full humanity to ...engage, show up etc. It's a strange dance...but it's actually the true dance of our species, I feel. Keep going Mark. The questions, the care...THAT is part of it. I have to tell myself the same thing.
Yes, that's a distinction I'm starting to feel settled with - 'doing' is not 'fixing'. But the actions are useful still.
I love this series of books, not sure if you have come across them before, fantastic little practical guides for those that want to 'do': https://thedobook.co/
I've always thought there's an author missing in this series - you.
Not sure what your 'DO' subject would be though... maybe.. DO: Collapse?
I have long felt this, Mark -- that I should be doing more. When I tried that, though, I burned out.
Truth be told, Jesus actually spent a great deal of his earthly life managing people's disappointment in him. People were constantly, constantly, disappointed in him. People wanted him to be the warrior avenger who led the resistance against the empire and the religious institution that aligned itself with the Roman colonizers. He never even healed everyone that needed it. He was just not what most people wanted. But he entered into relationship with people who he encountered, allowing them agency, freedom, and teaching them how to see themselves: as beloved and worthy of love.
Do you use your art to express these longings, questions, and complexities on your heart?
A wonderful example, M. Thanks
Thank you. Have been thinking about this for the past few days. He also always called people back into community with everything he did. All of the healings, etc were also restorations of relationship and community. And even then it wasn't bliss; these folks had to go right back into the world that caused the pain or wound, or at least made it worse, and that ran on the systems of alienation and oppression that disenfranchised the least of these. I am wondering more and more if a powerful form of activism against fascism actively looks like radically elevating the lowest in society.
Yeh, that’s understandable. I think I get like this because I used to be alot more pro-active in younger years, was able to do more. But now with the kids and family and elderly parents as well as working full time it just can lead to frustration really… i have all this stuff i want to do, so many people I want to talk to and meet with and community projects and groups i want to be part of, but I can’t because yes time is limited but so is energy and I do burn out too when I throw too many things into the pot. I can also end up dis-regarding those closest to me… my wife and children… in the pursuit of other things and that can be quite upsetting. These are people I love and care for but in trying to do more good in community, I forget about their needs and desire for my time too. I often want to be cloned. There’s simply too much that needs doing and nobody is stepping up and doing it. Too many people just sitting around idle and it does frustrate me.
I do use my creative practise for expression when I really need to, I let that be guided in its own way though, I can never force it, even when I want to. Words, poems, postcards I create and stuff they all help yeh and I often then leave things around for people to collect… so like… passing these things on, I don’t see any point in creating something that just exists for me, it should be out there in the world and perhaps that helps, perhaps they just get destroyed by nature, then so be it…
I assure you wholeheartedly that people are finding those little bits of beauty and reverencing of humanity and that a little healing takes place. And that some will be inspired to listen to the voice of vocation in their lives because of it. I've come to an interesting understanding in it all: loving into our families and friends and those in our closest circles IS activism; it is active resistance to the forces that want to isolate people from one another and our humanity in order to stay in a constant state of fear and competition.
Here’s a little example… this was in Summer, that beautiful tree with the hand carved secret door has since been cut down which is really sad.
Funny how the world works though, about two weeks after I had left this poem on the tree, I was on a photography walk and got chatting to a lady and she saw a badge I was wearing and asked me if I was the Mr Arteest guy and I said yes and she said ‘oh wow, I found your poem in the park the other day, it made me cry and smile all at the same time’ she’d taken a photo of it so showed me and told me a story about why it helped her and how she would pass it on to others… so sometimes I do get lifted by a lovely story like this but I usually prefer to just stay anonymous, I really struggle to take any glory ot compliment from things, it never really resonates with me, feel like a fraud or something. I don’t know why. Probably because of that feeling that this is all too little and useless in the grand scheme of things.
Some lovely words from my friend on this Friday , after witnessing such a lovely chat.
It’s a lot , but it is also very very simple. It’s a long way back. But do not allow your heart to be restricted by our limited sense of reality.
There is always time for what is important. Time stretches and morphs to ensure that love and connections is possible. It collapses and becomes scarce when we are doing the opposite.
One simple act by one simple person reverberates out far beyond what we can comprehend
FRIDAY COSMIC NUMEROLOGY
Fri 12.12 ~ 6/Venus + 3/Jupiter + 6/Venus + 9/Mars + ruling number ~ 8
Hearts expand, love grows, joy arrives. Double 6/Venus makes contact with 3/Jupiter and this multiplies love in all its forms (not just romance yea). As we are in a waning moon nearing the end of the year as well as the end of the 9 year cycle we are in the dispersion and completion phase with this. What that means is a letting go is required. For some of us this means releasing a person/attachment, a feeling, an expectation, a too hard shell, the need for control or a way of doing & being in relationships which does not help but instead repels the real love we desire.
Anything that blocks the ability of love to come through for you has to be said goodbye to. This goes double for the love we give ourselves. Be generous and kind with you. Shower yourself in the level of love you yearn to receive. And give it heartily to your people.
Thank you Sarah for a powerful Interview. I've yet to read the comments below and will come back to do so. I was able to tune into the Live and will re-listen however I don't feel Marianne's overall message is "the spiritual is always political" ... but rather - the political needs to be spiritual - and in it's simplest form that then would address on a personal level our anxiety and emotional healing, forgiveness and letting go, living in the moment, moving through our dark times etc. plus the broader cultural and global crisis of war, poverty, climate change etc. and a turning towards peace.
I have followed Marianne viz her iconic book A Return to Love (which is based on the principles of A Course in Miracles which as Marianne mentioned this book are like a Cliff Notes to the ACIM) for over 30 years and in short what I've gleaned from those teachings is a kind of mantra for me - "love over fear in any situation". A Return to Love book her talks on ACIM etc have been a lifeline for me (and I know many others) guiding me through most challenging time of my life; with love over fear. The quote 'Our Deepest Fear' often attributed to Nelson Mandala (he quoted that in his inaugural speech) comes from the book A Return to Love. On a side note, I read somewhere that Gabor Mate is doing the lessons on ACIM, which by the way it's not easy to follow the lessons and the text is very heavy that is why the teachers on a ACIM can be helpful.
What I gleaned from the interview that was also helpful - Marianne mentioned start with what we can do on a daily basis - so being kind to others, showing compassion etc. and at the same time calling out the wrongs and taking some action within our power is powerful. While Marianne may not on her socials address the Gaza crisis (and I don't take that lightly) she is still "teaching" me - where am I not doing enough in this situation etc. So for example I will not go to MW's socials for her guidance on the Middle East (although compared to other spiritual leaders of the day she does speak out), but yes to politics and yes the meditations, lessons on inner peace and coming from a space of love. At the end of the day we are human, and what Marianne can offer as guidance to the individual and a nation is paramount. I would love to hear more from Marianne. Deep gratitude to you Sarah.
Really enjoyed this conversation about the political being spiritual . I thought Marianne was on the money on what is needed now . I have revised my view of her and am going to investigate her substack...showing how it's so good to re assess .
We are all in the process of change and all our voices are needed now.
Please bring her back. Thanks
Thank you Sarah. I was grateful to catch this conversation and be able to listen in live. I’m very interested in her new book and adding it to my mid-life library! I would love to hear you both discuss that and more!
thank you, and noted!
Looking forward to going to see Marianne
Also reminds me
She has become practical and the spuritual teacher phrase
She didnt say that . Others did
Like the Healer.
I never called myself a healer. Others penned the term..
Its ego.
Only a true healer would never call themselves a healer, and that is what she seems to be alluding to.
Ita like chinese massage therapists…they work with numbers. Conveyer belt. Ive workes for them. Theres no heart.
I couldnt keep doing it.
Yet, suck it up princess.
I have witnessed mariannes spark diminish as the trump thing transpired. So she is digging superdeep and we love her
As for oprah. Can someone tell me why she is so good…
Im missing lots of boats and am out to sea x
My comments disappear
Thanks
Marianne was my original go to
The fact we are all getting the same info. Downloads is not cool
Her dad and bro we immigration attorneys, hence her passion for overturning ice raids perhaps
Her maternak grandparents part jewish
For me.
Her nelson mandella poem
“ our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate
But we are powerful beyond measure
It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us.
Who are you not be talented, gorgeous etc
You are a child of the universe and it is unfolding as it should…”
words differ thanks to internet
But a reminder to dig deep and keep shining and that god exists in all of us….still
Like her references to ghandi
( i share his bday )
But the reminder that even all spiritual gurus are flawed and covid has shown this over and over..
God. Jesus. Buddha
But my word. Dont underesrimate the menopausal and peri woman and kali rage…
Men step aside. Or even better. Work with us eh.
I know nothing.
Thats my catchphrase.
I know nothing.
But the old we are all in thia together. And we are all connected.
Can we be.
Please.
Xo
This inspired me so much! How? - to keep my meditation practice and know how vital it is.
- to not yet overwhelmed by how I can make a change but to stick in my lane, which for me is children.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you ❤️
Still lots of great content tonight and will follow MW on Substack x