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Steve C's avatar

I think you and Helen appeal to men, because you both are pissed off enough to raise real issues, but are also able to be self reflective and curious in the discussion. Men know things are fucked , but are not so good at communicating it.

I also suspect that genius cannot be cultivated via socialist methods, as it requires molding in dysfunction (the right balance of right/left, and good and evil). BUT socialist methods can give people (especially women) agency to share their genius. And foster respect so that we are open to hear it.

Sarah Wilson's avatar

Thanks Steve. I'm sure Helen cops this, too. No matter how "well" we do, we will still be hit with a barrage of messages from men telling us where we need to improve, "what you need to know, Sarah"....

Beyond the Apocalypse's avatar

Thank you Helen and Sarah, looking forward to reading this book.

In Ancient Rome “genius” related to a guardian spirit or entity that dwelled with you from birth (similar to Arabic word “djinn”). Genius comes from outside us, we just need to get out of our own way to be pipelines for it to come through. True creatives do this so well. I’m all for Helen’s closing ideas on creating spaces for this to happen within.

Sarah Wilson's avatar

I like this take, Alicia ...thank you

Abigail Thomas's avatar

the earliest Indo-European root for genius was "to give birth."

Sarah Wilson's avatar

there we go!

Didnt' that get lost along the way...

Abigail Thomas's avatar

Not even along the way.You’d have to go back pretty far to ever have had it revered.

Steve C's avatar

That's perfect, and that is what it is, it is not the person, they are the vessel which the insight or leap comes through. it is the ego and the business around the person that takes credit for it.

I suspect that genius in general is closely related to mental illness. Which I suspect is due to the high level of "source" running through the man or woman involved. Which results in bipolarism, schizophrenia, ADHD or Autism. You would know more about this Sarah, but I know in my own peak experiences either in a manic state, or ecstatic state, that the level of awareness of both the physical and the metaphysical world is heightened. We are just not trained in how to deal with these rare human states.

Steve C's avatar

And the ego, can quickly attach itself to the "beyond" or the metaphysical realm and the knowledge / wisdom found there. AKA the classic high performing narcissist pr sociopath burning out, taking shrooms and suddenly think they are god. Forgetting that no, you touched god, because you are god, but right now, you are a dumb as fuck human.

Bianca's avatar

I "discovered" Helen via one of your previous podcasts and have been following her since. I'm looking forward to reading The Genius Myth. I'm ordering a few copies for the library. I'm someone who's always had "idols" since I was a little girl, starting with Napoleon when I was 12 and moving on to writers, musicians etc. Unsurprisingly, they were all men. These days, I reject the genius myth and always demand to know who's supported and given the "genius" the time and opportunities to create, invent, make, etc. It makes me angry to think of all the incredible women before us who never had the opportunities, whose ideas were stolen or appropriated, who were never recognised.

Sarah Wilson's avatar

another interesting book to read in this realm (in addition to Helen's Difficult Women" is Sleepless by Annabel Abbs. It talks about insomnia through the female lens - a lot of women artists, writers, scientists didn't sleep because the only time they could get their work done was when everyone was asleep. She uncovers more layers - male hormones become deranged at night (ergo male violence after dark) while female hormones apparently create an elevated mindset (creative).

Helen Lewis's avatar

In that vein, I enjoyed The Wives by Alexandra Popoff — about Russian writers’ other halves.

Sarah Wilson's avatar

I also love that you ordered for your library!

Dianne Bryant's avatar

I’m not particularly interested in whether he is a smart person, a brilliant person, or a genius. I believe he is wholeheartedly interested in his strength of wealth and disinterested in the common good people. Which is the largest part of our population!

VicW's avatar

oh my gosh - so many things I have not really connected before.

James's avatar

Very interesting and sane discussion. Most enjoyable and informative.

Dianne Bryant's avatar

Not that I’m against a person who has been able to create a better understanding or true knowledge of some particular subject. That is valuable to everyone

Dianne Bryant's avatar

Being smart doesn’t mean you are thoughtful and treat others with respect. Forget it!

Steve C's avatar

I don't think Elon has invented anything, he is a smart ruthless man, who can speak both to autistic engineers and weird little male investors, and in some ways the general public. In a weird Trump, Branson, Steve Jobs way. All super self obsessed men , who are good communicators to the right people. But ultimately only rehash old things, or good smoke and mirror shows.

Bianca's avatar

Elon hasn't invented anything, he's been very good at seeing the business opportunities and getting involved and probably making it bigger (arguably, some would have become bigger without him). From what I've read, there are no patents or anything that he invented/created. I'm sure for every successful business endeavour there are many others that failed.

Steve C's avatar

Probably some smart lady HR managers and engineers behind the success. Turning demands into reality and keeping the workforce from suing them or quitting.

He draws insecure over achievers to him like bees to honey. Which also helps.

Helen Lewis's avatar

One thing I mention in the book is that he used to have an absolutely fearsome secretary who effectively managed his time. He fired her — she says because she asked for a holiday.

Steve C's avatar

Isn’t that classic dude

He could have created a fantastic symbiotic relationship with her

A woman’s ability to manage time and energy and the relationships

With his relentless drive

If he was smart he would have said yes!! Fuck , a holiday would be good. Let’s sync up holidays. And elevate people to manage things while we are out.

Steve C's avatar

Men and possibly type A women look at someone like him and rather than recognise the horrible dysfunction and unsustainable lifestyle. We instead adjust our own expectations and feel less than.

Long hours, and self sacrifice are a part of life from time to time. When birthing a child, concept, cause or protecting a community from war or catastrophe. But not all day every day.

We humans seem to enjoy the chaos though. Either as the maelstrom, or on the sidelines as a form of entertainment.

I am hoping that the spin off from puritanical woke-ism, and right wing control meisters. Will be cluster fucks which are picked up on earlier and easier to escape their orbit of by the average joe.

Steve C's avatar

I suspect that it is both the self congratulatory, we might destroy the world, but we are more than the world, look at me thing. But I also suspect that those warnings are actually disclaimers suggested by legal team within the companies. So that when the shit hits the fan, they can shift the blame.

Kellie's avatar

Great discussion. Really enjoyed it. Love how the both of you are talking about the hard and “taboo” stuff and ruffling feathers.