Since our convo, I’ve been watching Sky News any time they discuss The Voice, to try to better understand where the confusion is coming from. Now whenever I enter a discussion/debate about the referendum, I feel better equipped to have a holistic conversation (and convince them to vote yes 😁).
Also loving The Free Press from your rec!
Few other substacks I’m loving (mostly social science based);
I'm going to miss the Australian based presence of your wonderful self and your wildly curious and enquiring mind. Please stay safe and regularly keep in touch with your loving Aussie followers. I do however understand the call of the gypsy soul. Take care XO
Hi Sarah. I see myself as mostly left-wing / progressive but not straying too far from the centre. I am totally onboard with listening to alternate views and arguments and enjoy the debate of ideas etc, all things you've written and podcast-ed (is this a word?) about before.
However, the point that I keep wondering is - is this what the right-wing / conservatives do? What good is it if the people on the left are the ones to keep an open mind and hear the other side out and engage in well-intended debate, if the other side doesn't do that too? If the other side is more than happy to sit in their silos / echo chambers and not make the effort that the people on the left do, then isn't it pointless? Don't both sides need to try to this in order for us to get anywhere? I'm yet to hear any person make the credible point with evidence that the right is in fact doing this also.
I guess we just need to do what we think is right. I reckon we start to talking to conservative friends that might respect the openness and consider doing the same. Be the change we want to see and all that....
Also, I think it's a bit like a toxic co-dependent relationship. Only one party needs to change to shift the go-nowhere dynamic.
I would describe myself as classically left of centre. My position has remained relatively the same over the years: belief in free speech and civil liberties, generally anti-war (pro peace), supportive of a clean sustainable future. Nowadays my views are sometimes seen as far-right, that's how far the left has gone to the extreme.
I advocated for freedom and human rights during covid as these fundamental rights were getting grossly infringed upon, something i thought was a left issue. Now it gets framed as though freedom and human rights, paradoxically, is far-right extremism.
I would not agree that the left these days is generally open to debates and divergent views. The so-called inclusive and progressive left are often times exclusionary and anything but progressive.
A few great examples: look what happened to Jordan Peterson around 2016 and onwards when he started advocating for free speech on campus. The amount of protests against him speaking, getting uninvited from universities (https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation) etc. These are places where debate around different views and freedom of expression should be happening, as opposed to silencing them (same goes with the likes of ben shapiro, candace owens etc.). There's a great doco on his journey: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10469384/
Also what happened to Brett Weisntein and Heather Heying, who got extreme backlash and threats due to not going along with an essentially racist "day of absence" (for white people) at Evergreen college and for having a different opinion. There's an eye-opening doco of how it all went down on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0W9QbkX8Cs
Bari Weis, the founder of the Free Press, is another great example of someone who was harassed and discriminated at work (new york times - classically left media) for having different views https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter
Robert F Kennedy Jr who recently launched his Democratic bid for president, was on the ABC (again classically left media) and rather than openly debate hot-button topics, the ABC decided to censor some of the interview because of supposed "misinformation" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaT5pZ1JoQU. So rather than openly debate the topic, they chose censorship. He also got criticised for going on platforms like Fox News, as though speaking to the "other side" was evil.
These are a few examples of how, i believe, the left at the moment is not open to divergent views, quite the opposite.
Unheard is a great example of a conservative platform that interviews people form all walks of life, from the far left (Noam Chomsky) to Douglas Murray (probably more of a conservative) and everyone in between.
I don't think it's a right vs left issue anymore. Many independent thinkers are emerging from both the left and the right.
I believe it's an issue of those who celebrate freedom, divergent / heterdox views, vs those who are advocating for censorship and coercing and controlling other people (such as policies during covid, new gender laws, fight against "misinformation" etc.)
I no longer care if someone is on the right or left. I care about whether they stand up for principles which unite rather than divide, that see us as unique individuals and yet one human family (as opposed to viewing people through the lens of race, gender etc.), and that advocate for our fundamental human rights and freedoms. I care about whether we can respectfully have open conversations and debates about all topics. There are people on both the left AND right that are doing this now, and in many cases they've either been fired or chosen to leave their jobs, as our current culture is not supporting genuine free expression.
Thanks for such a considered comment. I found your points really interesting. I can certainly think of some people who have taken the 'wokeness' of the left too far and are not open to listening to the other side, as Sarah has encouraged us to do. As you say, if there's people trying to listen / not listen on the left then perhaps it's the same on the right - this thought comforts me re my original concern.
The links you supplied were interesting. I agree that the Day of Absence debacle is an example of things going too far perhaps. The Bari Weiss letter is a compelling read. I also agree that uni's should be places of debate and that you should be able to go on a platform which speaks to 'the other side', but the one thing I would agree to having a blanket ban on is anyone who wants to argue that the climate crisis isn't real. People all around the world, including myself are experiencing the effects of this and scientists from all around the world have proven without a shadow of a doubt that it is real and we are at a critical point with it. So I don't think we should spend any more of our time discussing otherwise - we need to be focused on solutions and mitigation. Humans aren't going to be able to squabble about pronouns and vaccines if we don't have a liveable planet. Steps need to be taken now with urgency if we are to avoid catastrophic climate collapse. Some might say: well, you can't say yes to this topic but no to that and that free speech is free speech but I think a line has to be drawn somewhere sensible and to me the climate crisis is one very important issue where this would be the case. I guess though, people will have different opinions about where the line should be drawn, if at all. No one will ever get everyone united over an issue. So at some point, we just need to say ok that's enough arguing now, we're pressing on with what needs to be done and to let the outliers be. Which is hard because sometimes the outliers turn out to be right. I'm thinking of the wars predicated on "Weapons of Mass Destruction" which the majority believed and then turned out to be false.
I loved your point about the one human family. Thanks for the discussion, Matthew!
The descriptor ‘conservative’ (opposed to progressive) tell us that the right would keep to the silo (are they truly conservative then?). But everything is always more complex and I’d like to find some via Sarah’s links...
I have been thinking similar thoughts to step out of my silo lately, too. I loved listening to you chat with Helen Lewis lately, I really appreciate her sharp intellect and that she isn't easy to fit into any boxes. I like her takes on things. (Not that she = stepping out of the silo necessarily, but she doesn't subscribe to ideas that are necessarily "left". Her ideas seem to build on compassion and inclusiveness, but do not necessarily always fit neatly into comfortable categories).
I also listen a little to Decoding the Gurus. And I find Josh Szeps 'Uncomfortable Conversations' podcast a good one sometimes - another Aussie, and I think you've been on his podcast before. I think he authentically tries to look at things through a common-sense lens. I don't always agree, but that's not the point is it? I appreciate his smarts and his good-faith ability to dig in to difficult topics.
All the best for your journey, Sarah. I echo other posts that I feel a little sad that your voice is moving from Australia (and from our shared hometown of Bondi!) but I hope your brave adventuring brings something fresh and new and exciting to your world. I look forward to hearing about it.
Sarah, thanks for this post. I too open the door and peer into unknown areas via the Substack recommending thing. But I rarely go in because I feel like my views are wobbly/unformed/nuanced (though I suspect an outsider would probably clock me as ‘Left’ instantly!) and impressionable to ideas I can’t trust yet (stranger danger!). And I close the door again. I’m so glad you’ve linked these people. I see it as a guide, not a recommendation, which is an important distinction (I guess I’m scared of rabbit holes). Thanks!
Yes Cass, I can relate to this! (The feeling of wariness/"stranger danger"). Especially having seen many family members get swept into some very unpleasant views IMO by being "open" without a solid ability to critique what they are opening themselves to. They are then vulnerable to exploitation by alt-right type ideologues. But I admire this project, Sarah, and am also trying to open out of my silo (carefully!)
Thanks for this. My partner regularly tunes into Fox News etc. to find out what the 'other side' are thinking. Personally I haven't been able to bring myself to do it, but your post makes me think about my siloed world...
Great post, Sarah. I’ve already started listening to The Witch Trials of JK Rowling. Really like the presenter. I used to read spiked-online.com. They’re free speech advocates. In the end I found it a bit dude-y and contrarian (seemingly just for the sake), but refreshing on those days when I felt overwhelmed by outrage culture.
Since our convo, I’ve been watching Sky News any time they discuss The Voice, to try to better understand where the confusion is coming from. Now whenever I enter a discussion/debate about the referendum, I feel better equipped to have a holistic conversation (and convince them to vote yes 😁).
Also loving The Free Press from your rec!
Few other substacks I’m loving (mostly social science based);
Aporia
Anglo Reaction
The bigger picture
Xx
Thanks for the above!
I'm going to miss the Australian based presence of your wonderful self and your wildly curious and enquiring mind. Please stay safe and regularly keep in touch with your loving Aussie followers. I do however understand the call of the gypsy soul. Take care XO
Hi Sarah. I see myself as mostly left-wing / progressive but not straying too far from the centre. I am totally onboard with listening to alternate views and arguments and enjoy the debate of ideas etc, all things you've written and podcast-ed (is this a word?) about before.
However, the point that I keep wondering is - is this what the right-wing / conservatives do? What good is it if the people on the left are the ones to keep an open mind and hear the other side out and engage in well-intended debate, if the other side doesn't do that too? If the other side is more than happy to sit in their silos / echo chambers and not make the effort that the people on the left do, then isn't it pointless? Don't both sides need to try to this in order for us to get anywhere? I'm yet to hear any person make the credible point with evidence that the right is in fact doing this also.
Good luck with the move!
I guess we just need to do what we think is right. I reckon we start to talking to conservative friends that might respect the openness and consider doing the same. Be the change we want to see and all that....
Also, I think it's a bit like a toxic co-dependent relationship. Only one party needs to change to shift the go-nowhere dynamic.
I would describe myself as classically left of centre. My position has remained relatively the same over the years: belief in free speech and civil liberties, generally anti-war (pro peace), supportive of a clean sustainable future. Nowadays my views are sometimes seen as far-right, that's how far the left has gone to the extreme.
I advocated for freedom and human rights during covid as these fundamental rights were getting grossly infringed upon, something i thought was a left issue. Now it gets framed as though freedom and human rights, paradoxically, is far-right extremism.
I would not agree that the left these days is generally open to debates and divergent views. The so-called inclusive and progressive left are often times exclusionary and anything but progressive.
A few great examples: look what happened to Jordan Peterson around 2016 and onwards when he started advocating for free speech on campus. The amount of protests against him speaking, getting uninvited from universities (https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation) etc. These are places where debate around different views and freedom of expression should be happening, as opposed to silencing them (same goes with the likes of ben shapiro, candace owens etc.). There's a great doco on his journey: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10469384/
Also what happened to Brett Weisntein and Heather Heying, who got extreme backlash and threats due to not going along with an essentially racist "day of absence" (for white people) at Evergreen college and for having a different opinion. There's an eye-opening doco of how it all went down on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0W9QbkX8Cs
Bari Weis, the founder of the Free Press, is another great example of someone who was harassed and discriminated at work (new york times - classically left media) for having different views https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter
Robert F Kennedy Jr who recently launched his Democratic bid for president, was on the ABC (again classically left media) and rather than openly debate hot-button topics, the ABC decided to censor some of the interview because of supposed "misinformation" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaT5pZ1JoQU. So rather than openly debate the topic, they chose censorship. He also got criticised for going on platforms like Fox News, as though speaking to the "other side" was evil.
These are a few examples of how, i believe, the left at the moment is not open to divergent views, quite the opposite.
Unheard is a great example of a conservative platform that interviews people form all walks of life, from the far left (Noam Chomsky) to Douglas Murray (probably more of a conservative) and everyone in between.
I don't think it's a right vs left issue anymore. Many independent thinkers are emerging from both the left and the right.
I believe it's an issue of those who celebrate freedom, divergent / heterdox views, vs those who are advocating for censorship and coercing and controlling other people (such as policies during covid, new gender laws, fight against "misinformation" etc.)
I no longer care if someone is on the right or left. I care about whether they stand up for principles which unite rather than divide, that see us as unique individuals and yet one human family (as opposed to viewing people through the lens of race, gender etc.), and that advocate for our fundamental human rights and freedoms. I care about whether we can respectfully have open conversations and debates about all topics. There are people on both the left AND right that are doing this now, and in many cases they've either been fired or chosen to leave their jobs, as our current culture is not supporting genuine free expression.
Hi Matthew,
Thanks for such a considered comment. I found your points really interesting. I can certainly think of some people who have taken the 'wokeness' of the left too far and are not open to listening to the other side, as Sarah has encouraged us to do. As you say, if there's people trying to listen / not listen on the left then perhaps it's the same on the right - this thought comforts me re my original concern.
The links you supplied were interesting. I agree that the Day of Absence debacle is an example of things going too far perhaps. The Bari Weiss letter is a compelling read. I also agree that uni's should be places of debate and that you should be able to go on a platform which speaks to 'the other side', but the one thing I would agree to having a blanket ban on is anyone who wants to argue that the climate crisis isn't real. People all around the world, including myself are experiencing the effects of this and scientists from all around the world have proven without a shadow of a doubt that it is real and we are at a critical point with it. So I don't think we should spend any more of our time discussing otherwise - we need to be focused on solutions and mitigation. Humans aren't going to be able to squabble about pronouns and vaccines if we don't have a liveable planet. Steps need to be taken now with urgency if we are to avoid catastrophic climate collapse. Some might say: well, you can't say yes to this topic but no to that and that free speech is free speech but I think a line has to be drawn somewhere sensible and to me the climate crisis is one very important issue where this would be the case. I guess though, people will have different opinions about where the line should be drawn, if at all. No one will ever get everyone united over an issue. So at some point, we just need to say ok that's enough arguing now, we're pressing on with what needs to be done and to let the outliers be. Which is hard because sometimes the outliers turn out to be right. I'm thinking of the wars predicated on "Weapons of Mass Destruction" which the majority believed and then turned out to be false.
I loved your point about the one human family. Thanks for the discussion, Matthew!
I wondered this too.
The descriptor ‘conservative’ (opposed to progressive) tell us that the right would keep to the silo (are they truly conservative then?). But everything is always more complex and I’d like to find some via Sarah’s links...
Yeah I’m super curious to know the answer to this. Apart from outliers my impression is that they’re in lock step.
Would also really love to read some Aussie writers of that calibre - this list is great though, thanks so much for sharing!
Yeah, me too. I await recommendations!
Hi Sarah,
I have been thinking similar thoughts to step out of my silo lately, too. I loved listening to you chat with Helen Lewis lately, I really appreciate her sharp intellect and that she isn't easy to fit into any boxes. I like her takes on things. (Not that she = stepping out of the silo necessarily, but she doesn't subscribe to ideas that are necessarily "left". Her ideas seem to build on compassion and inclusiveness, but do not necessarily always fit neatly into comfortable categories).
I also listen a little to Decoding the Gurus. And I find Josh Szeps 'Uncomfortable Conversations' podcast a good one sometimes - another Aussie, and I think you've been on his podcast before. I think he authentically tries to look at things through a common-sense lens. I don't always agree, but that's not the point is it? I appreciate his smarts and his good-faith ability to dig in to difficult topics.
All the best for your journey, Sarah. I echo other posts that I feel a little sad that your voice is moving from Australia (and from our shared hometown of Bondi!) but I hope your brave adventuring brings something fresh and new and exciting to your world. I look forward to hearing about it.
Sarah, thanks for this post. I too open the door and peer into unknown areas via the Substack recommending thing. But I rarely go in because I feel like my views are wobbly/unformed/nuanced (though I suspect an outsider would probably clock me as ‘Left’ instantly!) and impressionable to ideas I can’t trust yet (stranger danger!). And I close the door again. I’m so glad you’ve linked these people. I see it as a guide, not a recommendation, which is an important distinction (I guess I’m scared of rabbit holes). Thanks!
Yes Cass, I can relate to this! (The feeling of wariness/"stranger danger"). Especially having seen many family members get swept into some very unpleasant views IMO by being "open" without a solid ability to critique what they are opening themselves to. They are then vulnerable to exploitation by alt-right type ideologues. But I admire this project, Sarah, and am also trying to open out of my silo (carefully!)
Thanks for this. My partner regularly tunes into Fox News etc. to find out what the 'other side' are thinking. Personally I haven't been able to bring myself to do it, but your post makes me think about my siloed world...
What a mess
I admire your work, totally understand your desire not to silo yourself, and am so glad you unpacked the CBD oil, but Weiss is a grifter imho. For ex: https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/parents-push-back-on-allegations-against-st-louis-transgender-center-i-m-baffled/article_a94bc4d2-e68b-535f-b0c7-9fefb9e8e9f4.html. I think the most charitable thing that could be said about her reporting in this instance was that it was in bad faith.
here is an Aussie for you! https://substack.com/profile/105077440-excessdeathsau I arrived here through Sage Hana's substack! Sage has an awesome bunch of commenters, and I learn so much from the comments ...
Great post, Sarah. I’ve already started listening to The Witch Trials of JK Rowling. Really like the presenter. I used to read spiked-online.com. They’re free speech advocates. In the end I found it a bit dude-y and contrarian (seemingly just for the sake), but refreshing on those days when I felt overwhelmed by outrage culture.