Random additional comment that just popped up in my head again … Is it necessary to name / immortalise Andrew Tate in your book? I feel like he gets enough airplay already and that there might be another way of referencing his culture without giving him more oxygen… 🤷♂️
I love the part about the French loving to "argue". It is so relevant because we avoid such convos in USA. It may be off the main topic, but it's important
Agreed. The reframe of non to “up for a robust discussion” is vital and an important missing piece in my experience of typical English-speaking culture. I vote to keep that section, Sarah 😃❤️🙏
Oh, I agree! I find so often that a discussion involving different perspectives, robust or otherwise, is instantly interpreted as an argument. I'm not sure how we got here - perhaps social media culture and click-bait journalism has eroded our ability to simply discuss a topic with genuine curiosity and openness, and appreciate that there are different perspectives to our own.
Agreed! As an Aussie married to a Frenchman, this cultural difference has been really tricky for me to navigate but I’ve grown so much from being on the receiving end of that approach.
I was disappointed here in Aus recently at a family gathering when a good opportunity for a deep and meaningful conversation was shut down because it was not comfortable. We need conversation that pushes us to think more. Sad.
Yes definitely keep the line about “non does not mean no in France. “It means up for a robust [curious] discussion.”
Getting out of the binary and need to be right, and instead getting curious about all the shades of grey is one of the most influential and inspiring ideas I have taken away of your work in the last year or so ❤️
I just had an interesting thought. When we go camping, we always place our camp chairs (or patch of ground) to face outwards. We never face the tent or caravan and we don't face each other, and there's no table that we sit at. We face out, we face the world, we open out to the view, the location, the wildlife, the other visitors (if there are any). It would never occur to us to sit any other way, but I've never quite realised the significance before.
One of many reasons why one feels so refreshed and opened-up at such times.
Yes! I guess we evolved walking next to each other, sitting next to each other facing a fire and so on...I think better alongside, instead of opposite. Opposite is for impositions, interviews etc...combat.
So true Samantha, whenever I am in nature with friends we always sit either, next to each other or in a semi-circle looking into the natural environment. The chatter is slower, more meaningful & insightful. Ps Sarah this chapter has an abundance of luscious ideas/thoughts and insights. Thank you for sharing
Chairs facing outwards & parenting teens … I think from Maggie Dent … sitting alongside rather than face to face invites more conversation and vulnerability. Advice was to sit in silence when driving your teen kids in the passenger seat - (the upside of being a taxi) and see what unfolds. Another view of the same idea?
I think it's important to reach out and connect with people when they open up and be vulnerable. I love that you felt his pain and were able to reach out not many people can do that ❤️❤️
I've always had to do it. If I see a young (usually heartbroken) woman crying on the street, I have to give her a hug (I ask her first). I'd want the same, or, rather, I'd be nourished/touched by the same....I think.
Me too! I teared up just reading it. My therapist told me recently that I am a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP) with deep empathy, and yet I think about how as a child I would be shamed for expressing emotion - “stop crying, you’re a sook” was a common throw away, (thanks dad). So now I find myself apologising when I cry, (which is often). Imagine expressing a raw emotion and having a stranger hold your hand as it is released. It’s beautiful.
I felt really emotional reading that part. Why are we so scared to show our pain, our confusion and uncertainty. Is it because we feel that most people are too scared to witness it or do we think we will be judged?
Thank you for this section. It resonated with me so much, especially as a 49 widow who recently resigned a big corporate role, has teen and pre-teen kids, and a bothering calf tear.
I feel that ‘in between-ness’ in every facet of my life!!! I couldn’t put words to it, but as you have (unknowingly) on a number of big occasions and issues throughout my life, you have again helped me find the explanation and in turn, an unexpected sense of peace, and hopefulness xxx
Love this so much Sarah! I’m always late to the comments party, but caught up today and really enjoy the journey you’re taking us on. Feels like we’re perched now in the liminal, spiritual, post-hope space and I actually feel excited (seems odd as I write it) for the ’not yet’ bit. And I mean that both in terms of the next chapter - bring on the death convo - and also in the world.
The chairs facing outwards makes me think of the connection between human openness and those who have more contact with the ‘implacable grandeur’ of life. Dacher Keltner says in his recent book about Awe, that being in relationship with vastness (whatever transcends our usual sense of self) can help with self-diminishment. Which in turn helps us unself back into the web of life. Which feels like part of the relief piece for me. And maybe those kinds of outward facing, wide-eyed people (you / us / we ) naturally have expanded our moral circles, because we feel so interconnected.
This vibe:
“In this swirl of currents, I’ve forgotten what was mine”
- Rumi
When I think about this it helps me make sense of why nobody else seems to care. Why I feel like standing on the street wearing a sandwich board that says ‘the end is nigh’ while many of my peers are busy converting their investment properties to airbnbs.
Love love love this chapter just as I loved the outward facing chairs in Paris, and strolling arm in arm with you at sunset and seeing it as your town. Finally, I do not have it in me to watch someone cry alone. I’m all for sharing tears. Xxx
This, this, all of this. I often grapple with understanding philosophy, all the different schools and opinions within the schools, which one sits deep for me, which one speaks to my Being in the world… I don’t know what it was Sarah, but this final line — “Finding our invincible summer within ourselves and pushing back no matter how hope-less, how futile, how absurd the situation we find ourselves in, is how we could indeed live now.” — was like a clearing bell. I got the simple meaning in finding our meaning, we continue to show up and live and that is the point, the meaning of it all, even at the end of all things. It reminds me to hope.
Sarah this is up there with the best pieces I have read for a long time. I related to every word being someone who is currently living in the cross over. It reminds me a little about what Mozart meant when he said “The music is not in the notes, but in the silence between.” The transitions. I’m living this now, and have just rented a place in Paris for the remainder of the year because I want to catapult myself into the next chapter, whatever that may be l, taking with me the wisdom of the world.
Thank you Mel. That Mozart line reminds me of how David Whyte describes poetry, too. The meaning is in the space between the words. Once I'm back in Paris, I'll organise a Paris meet-up!!
Hi Sarah. I'm behind in my reading, but I've been in the car a lot so able to catch the last Wild episode with Jem Bendell. A quick note to say bravo on such a nourishing discussion. The part at the end when you both get real about accepting collapse AND making living a full and (more) beautiful life a priority... it really helped. xo
This piece: "Today we move between seasons and stages of life – and, now, technologically accelerated epochs - unbuttressed and going at the wrong pace for our delicate nervous systems, forever overwhelmed and viscerally terrified of all the unknown unknowns."
I was so deeply moved reading this one - thank you for sharing. This is poetic "We really are. And we are all so tender. We need to nod and grab hands." You so beautifully put to words the call for action needed - empathy, understanding, embrace and gentleness with each other.
Thanks yet again Sarah, this is such an interesting and alive chapter, a great example in itself of creativity and meaning making through meeting the pressures and uncertainties of this time. A very fascinating dialogue here between what can give meaning , like the mythic concept of liminality and the naked meeting with the world we inhabit through really paying attention and responding - such a beautiful story of connection with the young men in the cafe. A big yes to encouraging the practice of curiosity in our daily lives through staying present and awake. Your writing and life is a great example of this. 🙏
The idea of shoulder to shoulder just took me back to when my eldest son was a teen. He was never one to tell me much about his life or what was going on for him internally (he was like this from a young age).
But as a teen he started going to parties and being more social and I often drove him there and picked him up. My ex husband said that I should make him get his own way because he felt I was preventing his independence. But these car journeys were priceless, we had so many wonderful conversations and I am so grateful for that time. There was something about shoulder to shoulder and looking out at the world that made him feel safe and comfortable enough to share openly.
I cried at the sheer beauty of this chapter. So much in here, I think I'll have to re read it a few times and I'm about to listen to the audio.
I love your examples of liminality, I have sat in many of those spaces you described in the last 10 years. Reading your words gave me comfort and helped me to see these spaces as beautiful and ripe with possibility rather than dark, scary and full of angst.
I love learning more about the French and Paris through your experiences.
Random additional comment that just popped up in my head again … Is it necessary to name / immortalise Andrew Tate in your book? I feel like he gets enough airplay already and that there might be another way of referencing his culture without giving him more oxygen… 🤷♂️
Yes agree, let's forget about him already
I love the part about the French loving to "argue". It is so relevant because we avoid such convos in USA. It may be off the main topic, but it's important
Agreed. The reframe of non to “up for a robust discussion” is vital and an important missing piece in my experience of typical English-speaking culture. I vote to keep that section, Sarah 😃❤️🙏
Oh, I agree! I find so often that a discussion involving different perspectives, robust or otherwise, is instantly interpreted as an argument. I'm not sure how we got here - perhaps social media culture and click-bait journalism has eroded our ability to simply discuss a topic with genuine curiosity and openness, and appreciate that there are different perspectives to our own.
Pre dated social media in my experience 🙂
Agreed! As an Aussie married to a Frenchman, this cultural difference has been really tricky for me to navigate but I’ve grown so much from being on the receiving end of that approach.
And there's also their sentimentality and ability to be LUDICROUSLY romantic, too.
I have found this hard to adjust to...but really enjoy it now
Yes I liked that paragraph and thought it was an important point too
Great, thanks all.
I was disappointed here in Aus recently at a family gathering when a good opportunity for a deep and meaningful conversation was shut down because it was not comfortable. We need conversation that pushes us to think more. Sad.
Yes definitely keep the line about “non does not mean no in France. “It means up for a robust [curious] discussion.”
Getting out of the binary and need to be right, and instead getting curious about all the shades of grey is one of the most influential and inspiring ideas I have taken away of your work in the last year or so ❤️
Chairs facing outwards...
I just had an interesting thought. When we go camping, we always place our camp chairs (or patch of ground) to face outwards. We never face the tent or caravan and we don't face each other, and there's no table that we sit at. We face out, we face the world, we open out to the view, the location, the wildlife, the other visitors (if there are any). It would never occur to us to sit any other way, but I've never quite realised the significance before.
One of many reasons why one feels so refreshed and opened-up at such times.
Thank you for drawing my attention to it 🙏
Yes! I guess we evolved walking next to each other, sitting next to each other facing a fire and so on...I think better alongside, instead of opposite. Opposite is for impositions, interviews etc...combat.
So true Samantha, whenever I am in nature with friends we always sit either, next to each other or in a semi-circle looking into the natural environment. The chatter is slower, more meaningful & insightful. Ps Sarah this chapter has an abundance of luscious ideas/thoughts and insights. Thank you for sharing
Pleasure!
Chairs facing outwards & parenting teens … I think from Maggie Dent … sitting alongside rather than face to face invites more conversation and vulnerability. Advice was to sit in silence when driving your teen kids in the passenger seat - (the upside of being a taxi) and see what unfolds. Another view of the same idea?
Interesting ...did you catch my interview with Maggie on my Wild podcast?
I think it's important to reach out and connect with people when they open up and be vulnerable. I love that you felt his pain and were able to reach out not many people can do that ❤️❤️
I've always had to do it. If I see a young (usually heartbroken) woman crying on the street, I have to give her a hug (I ask her first). I'd want the same, or, rather, I'd be nourished/touched by the same....I think.
Me too! I teared up just reading it. My therapist told me recently that I am a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP) with deep empathy, and yet I think about how as a child I would be shamed for expressing emotion - “stop crying, you’re a sook” was a common throw away, (thanks dad). So now I find myself apologising when I cry, (which is often). Imagine expressing a raw emotion and having a stranger hold your hand as it is released. It’s beautiful.
Try it now you're in Paris.
I cry a lot too, I wouldn't have it any other way x
I felt really emotional reading that part. Why are we so scared to show our pain, our confusion and uncertainty. Is it because we feel that most people are too scared to witness it or do we think we will be judged?
Perhaps because big things are hard.
I feel we have been desensitized, we want people to be okay so we don't have to deal with the big things. We pretend. I blame toxic positivity
certainly part of the picture...the flimsy veneer that we try to protect ourselves with.
and also how many times as a child were we told not to cry or as parents have said same … ah!
Thank you for this section. It resonated with me so much, especially as a 49 widow who recently resigned a big corporate role, has teen and pre-teen kids, and a bothering calf tear.
I feel that ‘in between-ness’ in every facet of my life!!! I couldn’t put words to it, but as you have (unknowingly) on a number of big occasions and issues throughout my life, you have again helped me find the explanation and in turn, an unexpected sense of peace, and hopefulness xxx
I'm glad my words have been able to speak what you feel! Truly x
Kma off topic but .. how did you identify your calf tear ? And how did you treat it ?? I think I have one !
Love this so much Sarah! I’m always late to the comments party, but caught up today and really enjoy the journey you’re taking us on. Feels like we’re perched now in the liminal, spiritual, post-hope space and I actually feel excited (seems odd as I write it) for the ’not yet’ bit. And I mean that both in terms of the next chapter - bring on the death convo - and also in the world.
The chairs facing outwards makes me think of the connection between human openness and those who have more contact with the ‘implacable grandeur’ of life. Dacher Keltner says in his recent book about Awe, that being in relationship with vastness (whatever transcends our usual sense of self) can help with self-diminishment. Which in turn helps us unself back into the web of life. Which feels like part of the relief piece for me. And maybe those kinds of outward facing, wide-eyed people (you / us / we ) naturally have expanded our moral circles, because we feel so interconnected.
This vibe:
“In this swirl of currents, I’ve forgotten what was mine”
- Rumi
When I think about this it helps me make sense of why nobody else seems to care. Why I feel like standing on the street wearing a sandwich board that says ‘the end is nigh’ while many of my peers are busy converting their investment properties to airbnbs.
Face the chairs outwards as a public manifesto!!
Dacher Keltner's work is fantastic. A truly great researcher, science communicator, and human!
I’m always late to the party too Tessa 😉
Love love love this chapter just as I loved the outward facing chairs in Paris, and strolling arm in arm with you at sunset and seeing it as your town. Finally, I do not have it in me to watch someone cry alone. I’m all for sharing tears. Xxx
We shall stroll again...
This, this, all of this. I often grapple with understanding philosophy, all the different schools and opinions within the schools, which one sits deep for me, which one speaks to my Being in the world… I don’t know what it was Sarah, but this final line — “Finding our invincible summer within ourselves and pushing back no matter how hope-less, how futile, how absurd the situation we find ourselves in, is how we could indeed live now.” — was like a clearing bell. I got the simple meaning in finding our meaning, we continue to show up and live and that is the point, the meaning of it all, even at the end of all things. It reminds me to hope.
I find Camus so great with this notion.
Sarah this is up there with the best pieces I have read for a long time. I related to every word being someone who is currently living in the cross over. It reminds me a little about what Mozart meant when he said “The music is not in the notes, but in the silence between.” The transitions. I’m living this now, and have just rented a place in Paris for the remainder of the year because I want to catapult myself into the next chapter, whatever that may be l, taking with me the wisdom of the world.
Thank you Mel. That Mozart line reminds me of how David Whyte describes poetry, too. The meaning is in the space between the words. Once I'm back in Paris, I'll organise a Paris meet-up!!
That would be incredible 🙏
I loved this chapter too....so beautiful!
Also, re footnote 4 - I absolutely DID need that explainer! Not familiar with Descartes beyond name only. Cheers!
awesome!
Me too!
Hi Sarah. I'm behind in my reading, but I've been in the car a lot so able to catch the last Wild episode with Jem Bendell. A quick note to say bravo on such a nourishing discussion. The part at the end when you both get real about accepting collapse AND making living a full and (more) beautiful life a priority... it really helped. xo
I, too, found the chat hard. But stand by my belief that it's actually all made me far happier, at a deeper level. Shit's got real!
This piece: "Today we move between seasons and stages of life – and, now, technologically accelerated epochs - unbuttressed and going at the wrong pace for our delicate nervous systems, forever overwhelmed and viscerally terrified of all the unknown unknowns."
You spelled it out Sarah.
The worlds' collective delicate nervous systems, feel seen... thank you. 🙏
we need to stroke the world! each other...
I was so deeply moved reading this one - thank you for sharing. This is poetic "We really are. And we are all so tender. We need to nod and grab hands." You so beautifully put to words the call for action needed - empathy, understanding, embrace and gentleness with each other.
Thx Kit xx
Thanks yet again Sarah, this is such an interesting and alive chapter, a great example in itself of creativity and meaning making through meeting the pressures and uncertainties of this time. A very fascinating dialogue here between what can give meaning , like the mythic concept of liminality and the naked meeting with the world we inhabit through really paying attention and responding - such a beautiful story of connection with the young men in the cafe. A big yes to encouraging the practice of curiosity in our daily lives through staying present and awake. Your writing and life is a great example of this. 🙏
The idea of shoulder to shoulder just took me back to when my eldest son was a teen. He was never one to tell me much about his life or what was going on for him internally (he was like this from a young age).
But as a teen he started going to parties and being more social and I often drove him there and picked him up. My ex husband said that I should make him get his own way because he felt I was preventing his independence. But these car journeys were priceless, we had so many wonderful conversations and I am so grateful for that time. There was something about shoulder to shoulder and looking out at the world that made him feel safe and comfortable enough to share openly.
I cried at the sheer beauty of this chapter. So much in here, I think I'll have to re read it a few times and I'm about to listen to the audio.
I love your examples of liminality, I have sat in many of those spaces you described in the last 10 years. Reading your words gave me comfort and helped me to see these spaces as beautiful and ripe with possibility rather than dark, scary and full of angst.
I love learning more about the French and Paris through your experiences.
Thank you Karola...your feedback is also sheer beauty
Thank you Sarah, that's such a lovely thing to say x