Ohh I loved this so much that I even took notes on the steps (to keep in mind next time I have to go through the process) - Thank you Sarah for articulating this so well!
Big conversation, lots of thoughts I am having. I was hurt. They said sorry. I chose to forgive. Curiously, I am in the situation now where my forgiving has hurt others, I love, who were secondary victims of the hurtful behaviour. I even had a talk with an ethicist around this issue - still sitting with it all, the ethics of forgiveness.
That's a big one, Annie. I once had a friend who went through a bad breakup and all of us around her were pretty dirty on the guy. Then she forgave him and wound up marrying him. A few of her friends couldn't cope with it and got mad at my her, like they were betrayed....I think it's a reflection of how strong the pull of resentment is, and the cognitive biases required to keep us in that space. What did the ethicist say? I'm curious...
I had volleyed with the whole thing to a point that I really needed another POV to see if there was an angle I was blind to. Naively, I spoke to the ethicist with the hope that a solution to my quandary would appear. TBH the ethicist found the particular facts a challenge too. What they did bring was a new lens to look at it through. My notes include the highlighted words: Rights, duties, obligations, values, consequences, care & relationships. The question I left with was - is there anything else I could do (in terms of gestures) towards those I had hurt (through my act of forgiving)?
annie, i'm curious: is it really your forgiving that has hurt others? i suspect there's another layer here --- like the impact of allowing someone back into your life bringing up challenging situations for others in your life.
Ultimately, it is the forgiving of 2 people and the main person is not in my life as they were. There is of course a lot of deets left out here and I’m still sitting with it all. It has moved on in a positive direction somewhat, however it still has me pondering if there is something else I can do, and I’m ok with that.
Yet, again, Sarah an amazing and thought provoking post! I'm right there with SteveB!
" ... work to this (more mature) style of repentance (as opposed to cheap grace) ..." covers so much of these sentiments! Straight to the heart, thanks!
I just feel so angry when I see so called leaders of our Country feeling so hard done by, it's just an example of their white privilege. Why can't he just say sorry? It would show more courage and earn respect by doing so. He is acting like a spoilt brat. Hope Albo can apologise to the Australian people one day too for his role in the atrocities being committed by the government.
I wish these politicians had a heart and showed compassion like Max Chandler Mather Greens MP. We need more politicians like him that actually care about the Australian people and not just care about stroking their own egos.
Thanks Sarah. Wanted to send feedback on your latest podcast - I loved it! Your climate crisis / environment ones are always my favs.
Two standout points for me: 1 - Leaf blowers. Sarah, I cannot tell you the degree to which these are the bane of my existence. I have a neighbour (as I’m sure many of us do) who is obsessed with his. He does his garden every second day and at most it takes two hours. If we’re having heavy rain and there’s a quick break in it, he’s out there with his leaf blower. He has matching overalls. He’s retired. I’m thinking about gifting him the Carbon Alamac with the leaf blowing section bookmarked, although I worry this will jeopardise our neighbourly peace. (Not that I have peace when he’s leafblowing!) I will write to the council requesting they ban them. And Bunnings too! Many cities around the world already are, Washington DC has I think. Which brings me to this question: When did this war on leaves start and why?
2 - Seth’s point about writing letters and being engaged in pushing for change re the climate crisis - I find this deeply overwhelming. I have a rolling list of all the people I want to write to about issues which I chip away at now and then. Another example is writing to the deodorant company whose product I like asking if they can make refillable deodorant. Then I normally go on social media and say “I’ve just done X, I encourage you do to this also because of Y and how.” I send a copy of the letter to my close people and ask them to send from their email address. I doubt anyone does any of these things. This is an area I find most frustrating, getting people to give a shit enough to get off social media / Netflix and take basic steps like this which can enact change if we all do these admittedly small things.
Oh, and what if the rolling letter writing was something we did WHILE watching Netflix. I have handsewing projects sitting on my coffee table for when I'm watching a show.
Just realised the above might sound like I'm hating on people watching Netflix. I work in film / TV and watch Netflix as much as anyone! I think I'm going to try to schedule in an hour a week for my letter-writing / campaigning so I feel like I'm always chipping away at it. At the top of it currently are your very helpful carbon offsetting tips from a previous post. So thank you for that Sarah!
I love your tips. And I adore you for having a rolling list. It's a great way to approach it. You can copy and paste the gist from one to next, I imagine. Why don't you alert this community in the comments to any "campaigns" you're doing and we can support you?
Apologies must be sincere. They must be targeted for the recipient: understood, genuine, and effective. They need to be relatable and make at least some sense.
I received a letter from the Minister, last year, with a link to the apology which Julia Gillard presented to people whose lives had been affected by forced adoption (ages ago now). That letter did not feel like an apology; it was more like an advertisement of their purported sincerity and care. Nor did anything the Courts or the Ombudsman or the state government administrator provide in a lackluster (let's call it what it was: fucking non-existent) response to another matter involving serial corruption of government, including perjury, all of it costing me more than most could know.
Can't these presumably educated and moral people get it right? It's not that hard.
I feel the word 'Sorry' has been diluted by its overuse and replacement on a daily basis for an 'excuse me'. We say 'sorry' when we do the awkward shuffle in personal space at the supermarket, 'sorry' when our dog or child does something socially impolite, 'sorry' when we interrupt... when an 'excuse me' is more appropriate. This would help the gravity of a real apology take weight....
I'm sorry...i can't add anything to this conversation. Each time i thought i had something to add you covered it beautifully as i read down through each paragraph.
So i only have a compliment.
If we could focus on giving more compliments the reduction in apologies could be tenfold.
Thank you Sarah and to everyone who added comments for further thought. I have developed deep feelings around apologies in the last few years as focusing inward has allowed me the space to notice how I feel when I apologise to someone. For most of my life, when I said sorry, it wasn't just a word, I also deeply took on responsibility for making amends or for fixing the situation for the other person. I assume this is because of my childhood experiences and it was very unhealthy. It may also just be because I'm Irish and we apologise for things do quickly that no one has the time to actually think through that happened. 🤣
People want and need to feel understood and listened to, they don't necessarily need you to make everything better for them. I would never say 'I'm sorry if...' because it puts all of the responsibility for a fix and blame on the other person but I'm not sure if 'I'm sorry that...' is the best option. I now start with 'i know...' as it validates whatever has happened for both people and opens up a space for the more beautiful questions.
What I really would like to dig deeper into is something that has become very clear to me in the last few years and that is females (in particular) apologising for their very existence. Every person deserves to be on this planet, because they are here! How might we empower each other so that we don't apologise for being here and taking up space?
Hmmm, well I guess if it's not a proper apology, ie you don't feel they've owned things, tried to make amends etc, you don't have to like it, or forgive them. You can hold that space for yourself.
Ohh I loved this so much that I even took notes on the steps (to keep in mind next time I have to go through the process) - Thank you Sarah for articulating this so well!
Big conversation, lots of thoughts I am having. I was hurt. They said sorry. I chose to forgive. Curiously, I am in the situation now where my forgiving has hurt others, I love, who were secondary victims of the hurtful behaviour. I even had a talk with an ethicist around this issue - still sitting with it all, the ethics of forgiveness.
That's a big one, Annie. I once had a friend who went through a bad breakup and all of us around her were pretty dirty on the guy. Then she forgave him and wound up marrying him. A few of her friends couldn't cope with it and got mad at my her, like they were betrayed....I think it's a reflection of how strong the pull of resentment is, and the cognitive biases required to keep us in that space. What did the ethicist say? I'm curious...
I had volleyed with the whole thing to a point that I really needed another POV to see if there was an angle I was blind to. Naively, I spoke to the ethicist with the hope that a solution to my quandary would appear. TBH the ethicist found the particular facts a challenge too. What they did bring was a new lens to look at it through. My notes include the highlighted words: Rights, duties, obligations, values, consequences, care & relationships. The question I left with was - is there anything else I could do (in terms of gestures) towards those I had hurt (through my act of forgiving)?
annie, i'm curious: is it really your forgiving that has hurt others? i suspect there's another layer here --- like the impact of allowing someone back into your life bringing up challenging situations for others in your life.
Ultimately, it is the forgiving of 2 people and the main person is not in my life as they were. There is of course a lot of deets left out here and I’m still sitting with it all. It has moved on in a positive direction somewhat, however it still has me pondering if there is something else I can do, and I’m ok with that.
Yet, again, Sarah an amazing and thought provoking post! I'm right there with SteveB!
" ... work to this (more mature) style of repentance (as opposed to cheap grace) ..." covers so much of these sentiments! Straight to the heart, thanks!
I just feel so angry when I see so called leaders of our Country feeling so hard done by, it's just an example of their white privilege. Why can't he just say sorry? It would show more courage and earn respect by doing so. He is acting like a spoilt brat. Hope Albo can apologise to the Australian people one day too for his role in the atrocities being committed by the government.
I wish these politicians had a heart and showed compassion like Max Chandler Mather Greens MP. We need more politicians like him that actually care about the Australian people and not just care about stroking their own egos.
Thanks Sarah. Wanted to send feedback on your latest podcast - I loved it! Your climate crisis / environment ones are always my favs.
Two standout points for me: 1 - Leaf blowers. Sarah, I cannot tell you the degree to which these are the bane of my existence. I have a neighbour (as I’m sure many of us do) who is obsessed with his. He does his garden every second day and at most it takes two hours. If we’re having heavy rain and there’s a quick break in it, he’s out there with his leaf blower. He has matching overalls. He’s retired. I’m thinking about gifting him the Carbon Alamac with the leaf blowing section bookmarked, although I worry this will jeopardise our neighbourly peace. (Not that I have peace when he’s leafblowing!) I will write to the council requesting they ban them. And Bunnings too! Many cities around the world already are, Washington DC has I think. Which brings me to this question: When did this war on leaves start and why?
2 - Seth’s point about writing letters and being engaged in pushing for change re the climate crisis - I find this deeply overwhelming. I have a rolling list of all the people I want to write to about issues which I chip away at now and then. Another example is writing to the deodorant company whose product I like asking if they can make refillable deodorant. Then I normally go on social media and say “I’ve just done X, I encourage you do to this also because of Y and how.” I send a copy of the letter to my close people and ask them to send from their email address. I doubt anyone does any of these things. This is an area I find most frustrating, getting people to give a shit enough to get off social media / Netflix and take basic steps like this which can enact change if we all do these admittedly small things.
Oh, and what if the rolling letter writing was something we did WHILE watching Netflix. I have handsewing projects sitting on my coffee table for when I'm watching a show.
Just realised the above might sound like I'm hating on people watching Netflix. I work in film / TV and watch Netflix as much as anyone! I think I'm going to try to schedule in an hour a week for my letter-writing / campaigning so I feel like I'm always chipping away at it. At the top of it currently are your very helpful carbon offsetting tips from a previous post. So thank you for that Sarah!
I love your tips. And I adore you for having a rolling list. It's a great way to approach it. You can copy and paste the gist from one to next, I imagine. Why don't you alert this community in the comments to any "campaigns" you're doing and we can support you?
Plenty of food for thought here Sarah. I’m guilty of the “if” but will work harder. I love the term cheap grace, it fits the bill very well
Good on you for getting conscious around it...x
Some people reluctantly apologise because they believe it diminishes their ego, when in reality it frees them from the burden of resentment.
and the burden of not living expansively
Apologies must be sincere. They must be targeted for the recipient: understood, genuine, and effective. They need to be relatable and make at least some sense.
I received a letter from the Minister, last year, with a link to the apology which Julia Gillard presented to people whose lives had been affected by forced adoption (ages ago now). That letter did not feel like an apology; it was more like an advertisement of their purported sincerity and care. Nor did anything the Courts or the Ombudsman or the state government administrator provide in a lackluster (let's call it what it was: fucking non-existent) response to another matter involving serial corruption of government, including perjury, all of it costing me more than most could know.
Can't these presumably educated and moral people get it right? It's not that hard.
Excellent post by you, Sarah.
I feel the word 'Sorry' has been diluted by its overuse and replacement on a daily basis for an 'excuse me'. We say 'sorry' when we do the awkward shuffle in personal space at the supermarket, 'sorry' when our dog or child does something socially impolite, 'sorry' when we interrupt... when an 'excuse me' is more appropriate. This would help the gravity of a real apology take weight....
Of we focus on steps 1-3...which don't focus on the word
Or
I'm sorry...i can't add anything to this conversation. Each time i thought i had something to add you covered it beautifully as i read down through each paragraph.
So i only have a compliment.
If we could focus on giving more compliments the reduction in apologies could be tenfold.
That's lovely Steve! Chuffed
Thank you Sarah and to everyone who added comments for further thought. I have developed deep feelings around apologies in the last few years as focusing inward has allowed me the space to notice how I feel when I apologise to someone. For most of my life, when I said sorry, it wasn't just a word, I also deeply took on responsibility for making amends or for fixing the situation for the other person. I assume this is because of my childhood experiences and it was very unhealthy. It may also just be because I'm Irish and we apologise for things do quickly that no one has the time to actually think through that happened. 🤣
People want and need to feel understood and listened to, they don't necessarily need you to make everything better for them. I would never say 'I'm sorry if...' because it puts all of the responsibility for a fix and blame on the other person but I'm not sure if 'I'm sorry that...' is the best option. I now start with 'i know...' as it validates whatever has happened for both people and opens up a space for the more beautiful questions.
What I really would like to dig deeper into is something that has become very clear to me in the last few years and that is females (in particular) apologising for their very existence. Every person deserves to be on this planet, because they are here! How might we empower each other so that we don't apologise for being here and taking up space?
Hmmm, well I guess if it's not a proper apology, ie you don't feel they've owned things, tried to make amends etc, you don't have to like it, or forgive them. You can hold that space for yourself.