43 Comments

Sarah, once again I admire your courage and always-generous intelligence.

This piece speaks to me so profoundly! I spend so much of my life being scared of having conversations because anything robust or worthwhile is usually uncomfortable and challenging and I risk the backlash. So I stay quiet. But reading your words made me feel calm and not alone! I agree the far right and left have made the exploration of ideas so much more difficult, no matter how sincerely you approach things. The older I get, the more comfortable I am with accepting different points of views. The only problem is, the older I get, the less confident I am in taking them on for fear of cancellation. Keep up this work which is like a golden thread of mental enrichment in a gloomy time.

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Emma, thanks for 'wading in'. I so appreciate the kind words...from you! It's funny, the older I get the MORE confident I get. But I have to remember that while I'm somewhat in the public eye (therefore at high risk of being cancelled and then having said cancelling go viral), I also have a big enough platform where I can get any balanced response I need to convey out by way of defence, if required. Or I can just piss off out of the country and go live in a hut!

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Surfs Up

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The issue if it's possible to be so is bigger than this article. It seems we have entered a state of being where any and every subject is taboo, and that we have lost the ability to disagree without being labelled as this or that. We have become defensive to the point of anhilation.

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Former teacher here. Honestly the growing distress of our young people, and the education systems complete inability to deal with it, was something that drove me away.

On your point of young men identifying as non-binary, I don't think it is a stretch to hypothesise that this isn't always done with the right intentions. Some of the most popular celebrities amongst young women- Harry Styles, Timothée Chalamet- are gender non-conforming. It has now been popularised and so of course people are going to lean that way. I worry where that leaves people who genuinely are distressed by gender and its restraints.

Also, you might find the work of Dr Ayesha Khan (The Woke Scientist) of interest to add to your thinking, if you haven't come across her already. She touches on this topic a lot and might add some new food for thought on the left side of things.

It really was brave to publish this. Good on you.

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Great - now following Dr Ayesha Khan.

And I agree...if transitioning or coming out is "cheapened" by cynical appropriation, I also fear it will send things backwards...backlash upon backlash. The arguments being put forward by Queer groups and feminists to this effect are valid.

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Thank you Sarah for having the courage to wade into this topic!

What i find most concerning/alarming about this trend, are new laws that have been introduced that in effect mean that parents must affirm a pre-pubescent child's gender identity AND their request for medical treatment.

Even though the brain doesn't fully mature until 25 years of age, somehow a pre-pubescent child is capable and mature enough, without the parents consent, to make a medical decision that could detrimentally impact them for the rest of their life. If the parents don't "affirm" this, that would be illegal.

I believe we need to empower and entrust parents to be the guardians of their children first and foremost, and these laws that align with this gender ideology go directly against this, and take this right and responsibility of parents away.

Source of new laws here in Victoria: https://www.humanrights.vic.gov.au/change-or-suppression-practices/for-professionals-institutions-and-communities/#What-are-change-or-suppression-practices

Quote from this human rights site:

"Practices that would be prohibited under the Act include:

A parent rejecting the recommendations of qualified health professionals and refusing to support their child’s request for medical treatment that will prevent physical changes from puberty that do not align with the child’s gender identity"

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Hi Matthew, yes this is the really pointy end of the debate and I didn't go into that part of the debate because while my instinct is the same as yours and I have friends who have experienced what you flag directly, I don't know enough about the arguments/science FOR allowing young people to direct the decision. I feel it certainly needs a lot more discussion and I suspect it will take quite a lot of muddling and pain before the world arrives at a good/right spot with it all. It's a big and hard one.

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Hi Sarah, I appreciate how you're able to shift between different points of view and see validity on bit sides, while not be on the hard left or hard right. I think in the case of these laws and medical treatment, it's really simple. Children are not yet mature enough to make these life altering decisions. If they were, then they would also be mature enough to enter a sexual relationship with an older person.

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Thank you for starting this conversation, it is a challenging space for all the reasons you mention. The stories you've shared of your friends GenZ kids/young adults mirror some of my friends in their 30s, all of whom suffer from rather extreme self-esteem issues.

The conversation around extrinsic and intrinsic actions reminds me of this TedX talk by a social researcher in the UK, with the idea that 'no cause is an island' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcD3lS3Utew

Oh and Jonathan Haidt's interview with Nate on The Great Simplification last week was a good listen, he delves into that Atlantic article. Only issue I had was a the very end when he said he was a fan of Steven Pinkers work, cringe! haha https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/59-jonathan-haidt

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PPPPPS I'm curious to talk to Nate on the podcast. His ideas intrigue, but I haven't quite got his measure yet. Your thoughts?

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I feel like he's someone who can see the bigger picture, and while what he sees isn't pretty or hopefully, he's doing his best to steer the conversation towards a place of kindness, understanding and acceptance. I'm very much biased towards macro thinking though, cos I fall into that category myself and its been refreshing to listen to someone on the same wavelength. Its also the reason I listen to your podcast :) You're a big picture thinker too.

I think it'd be very fascinating to hear you both in conversation!

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ah yeah, the Pinker connects in this world run deep.

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And I will delve into both those links the TED talk looks great.

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Hi. I’m writing in response to my latest listen, the interview with Hannah Barnes.

I was fascinated and definitely seems the UK clinic had serious issues. I’ve commented elsewhere and mentioned I’m a nurse in palliative care. I’ve been nursing for 25 years and though I am currently in palliative care, about half my career was in paediatrics, most recently up to November ‘22. I absolutely do not want to sound critical, but I do have some direct experience. For full transparency I am a happy and very gay man, and a proud trans man is my one of my closest friends.

Really I just want to contextualise for Australia or the Australian experience.

I know many paediatricians. Their training is arduous and from first year of uni through med school and then specialist training, somewhere in excess of 10 years, probably closer to 15. These professionals are acutely aware of the lack of evidence for ‘puberty blockers’ and their potential side effects. Acutely aware! And in my experience the default is that they are best avoided. Important to acknowledge that children are hitting puberty earlier now. Particularly girls, not that unusual for 8-9 year olds to start puberty.

Just based on some isolated cases I was involved/aware of though I can say a few things confidently. Acknowledging I feel there is danger in single stories and anecdotes. They are not useful scientifically but can illuminate. I met one young trans person who was absolutely horrified by idea they might develop sexual characteristics that did not match their feelings. Distressed to the extent they were threatening self harm. Their parents were loving and willing to consider any therapy but also very worried about medical intervention.

Speaking generally now, What follows over several lengthy appointments would be wide ranging conversations between the young person, their parents and the treating paediatrician with the overarching idea, of what is the least harm. Acknowledging lack of evidence, and potential side effects, what is safest decision for this young person at this time? As I mentioned, no paediatrician I met would prescribe these drugs lightly. It’s a awesome responsibility for the doctor and for the parents. In my experience this always involved complex and nuanced conversations and decisions.

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Hi Donny, thank you for sharing this. I'm wondering, did you think my rundown of where things are at in Australia was accurate? I feel Australia has quite a measured approach and hasn't got caught up in the hysteria that the UK and US has (at least not to the same extent).

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I think so. Though I do have some experience, I’m not an expert. I’d love to hear you talk to a clinician? I

am Scottish, came to Oz age 23 so am deeply connected to uk. I don’t feel what we see from uk media and particularly the Murdoch press reflects what most people actually believe. The evolving US landscape terrifies me. The potential for rolling back of rights…. I have no words… the complexities connecting rising right wing or facism, the devolving climate… and this hyper focus on a tiny number of our most vulnerable lgbt+

I guess if this is the meta crisis you’ve been talking about I have crisis fatigue already and we’re just getting started…

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I really feel like my head has been in the sand with all of this! This is such an interesting piece that has certainly got me thinking, thank you for bravely putting these thoughts and discussions out there so that people like me take notice and learn.

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I love your honesty with yourself Mya

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Such a thoroughly interesting read. Thank you. I am scrambling to throw myself always into both the far rights and lefts in an attempt to understand the fear (that looks like hate). I am devastated and challenged by the openly expressed disgust for LBQTIA+ from growing anti-woke groups, who despite access to education, freedom and privilege are increasingly threatened by inclusivity. And I scramble and scramble to understand why? I am dismayed by sometimes convincing arguments that dress this fear up as ‘protect the children’ cries and find myself rigid and unable to step in, afraid of the crossfire.

I really like that you make a link between individualistic/capitalist culture to extrinsic forms of identifying. I’ve been doing a lot of reading and pondering on how individualistic and collectivist cultures are playing into polarity and divisive thinking/feeling, particularly post Covid.

Thanks for being putting on the grown up pants and going there with softness and braveness. A very welcomed reminder that I can take deep breaths and ‘lean’ into the messiness.

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Yes, lean in. Why else are we here!!??

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Great post Sarah. You've done a great job sharing your research and your thoughts. Certain points really resonated with me - especially the part about not letting the extremes on either side own / rule on this debate.

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Very timely in our house.

Our 14-year-old son (year 9) is gay and the bullying from other boys is as horrible as I remember it being for one of my best friends 26 years ago when we were in year 9.

Thank you for “going there”. The stupid urge to “cancel” what we don’t agree with is so mind-numbingly frustrating that I have largely gone back to newspapers so I can read news and opinions without the “noise” of other forms of media.

I could go on, but thank you.

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I salute you for wading in, and look forward to reading more here. I always appreciate your frank and direct enquiry into topics often on the sidelines. Thank you for doing the research and bringing this to us!

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It is indeed a pleasure. This forum keeps me accountable!

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The Evolution of the species I'd call it, uncharted waters for sure, go on with your bad self 😄😄😄

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I shall.

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Sexuality has a very broad spectrum, we need to discuss it honestly and openly, celebrating all colours equally.

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Thank you Sarah. This is a wonderful, thoughtful and very kind piece of writing. As everything is connected, this piece strengthens my resolve to maintain my stance on not letting my 8 yo get facebook kids messenger. (This might seem offtopic but stay with me). Because although it purports to be kid safe, it's a part of the social media machine that damages us all but particularly young people. I don't want my kids to be a part of that so young since intrinsic worth and character building need to happen first and the social media machine also thrives off these Left/Right extremes.

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Sarah - hang in there! As the parent of a kind imaginative seven year old girl I am already delving into the issues surrounding social media, smartphones, and other technology. It terrifies me that I am going to to somehow mess this up! I don't have a lot of access to the experience of parents with this, as most of my friends are in the mid 30's- mid 40's and thus their kids are still on the young side for this. However I had a client last year who has chosen not to get either of her kids a smartphone until they were 16 and no social media until they were 18. I photographed her daughter and our interactions were markedly different to ones I have had with similarly aged kids. It's a fraught journey for sure, and I have no doubt it will be something other than IG or Tim Tok by the time we get there, but it's still really concerning.

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I feel your pain Liz, my son is 12 and has started high school this year. All his friends have mobile phones and social media too! We have decided no phone until at least 15/16. He has asked a few times and we have had to have that difficult discussion of social media, online bullying etc explaining that it’s not that we don’t trust him, instead we don’t trust others to do right by him. You definitely feel the pressure but we need to parent them and stay vigilant and true to what we believe is right.

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Thanks for your comment! You're right in the thick of it! Do you know about the IG account Wait Until The 8th? Have a look on there (or just google) and they have some great resources and research to help you back up your stance. It's American based but their information is applicable to anywhere in the world. I wish there was more information and support for parents out there rather than just the occasional news article - especially more interviews and stories from parents who have been there and don that and also from older teens/early twenties whose parents opted not to give them phones/social media until they were older and what impact that had on them.

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Great thank you, I’ll check it out

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This take on the reported levels of hopelessness and suicidal thoughts among teen girls is bang on, imo: https://jessica.substack.com/p/how-much-more-can-girls-take I’m very much not a fan of Haidt’s theory that it’s all down to “coddling” and social media. As one commenter noted, all social media does is collect and amplify the existing signals in society. To me, Haidt’s take is giving “If only those silly girls would get off their phones.” How very convenient to be able to blame inanimate objects rather than the society we live in.

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I have felt same way in past, and with Twenge's work. But I think his next After Babel project is exploring wider.

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Wow – so much to unpack here. Those stats are truly alarming and yes – particularly disturbing given that many of us would like to believe that we’re moving towards greater acceptance and celebration of sex, gender and sexuality across their entire beautiful spectrums.

I do sometimes question though whether the desire to stick a label on everything instead of celebrating difference and letting everyone just ‘be’ is part of the problem. Perhaps we have to move through this stage and deal with all of the messiness, complexity and nuance first, but I completely agree with you when you say “I’m wondering if we should be encouraging the cultivation of character, not the declaring of identity right now?” I’d love to see things move in that direction – it feels like we need to start moving away now from identifying ourselves as unique individuals and towards finding our common ground – especially if we’re to have any chance of collectively surviving all that lies ahead…

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If people have a label though they can access the support and healthcare they need

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Yes, I definitely appreciate that labels help for that and other reasons. I think it's more the way that labels have become such an integral part of self-identification and that has become a bit problematic.

I had a look at the posts on Ericka Hart's IG account that Sarah references in her post and there's some really interesting critique there from people of colour in particular, but a lot of pushback too from white people who have accused Ericka of being ablest, among other things. Whatever your initial reaction to these posts, I think it's worth reading through some of the comments on both the original and follow-up post – they've given me a lot of food for thought this week.

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