Sarah, I share your horror at everything happening in DC, and deep disgust with Musk, Trump, Zuckerberg, etc. And I appreciate the message that they are a few awful actors and not representative of Americans as a whole. However, I implore you – with all my heart – to rethink the associations you make here between their evil behavior and D&D, social skills, “spectrums.” Essentially, you seem to be saying that children who grow up nerdy and people with autism are evil or have greater capacity for evil. What an awful thing, to attack a group of people who already have a tough time in life. I know and love children on the spectrum, who spend much of their time on screens to escape the very big challenges of engaging with a neurotypical world that refuses (as you have) to understand them. Some of the autistic kids I know are truly the most empathetic, pro-social, loving, and well-intentioned people I can think of. Their capacity to care is inspiring. Their sense of justice is very strong. These kids feel empathy viscerally and tearfully, and they despise Trump because he embodies meanness and lack of empathy. As people with disabilities, they are also targets whose rights (including ability to obtain an equal education in public schools) are threatened right now. I am so scared for their futures. Please rethink blaming people on the spectrum for the horrendous things that Musk is doing. And understand that social skills and empathy are two VERY different things. For example, some say Trump has strong social skills and charisma, but no one can argue he has empathy. Many serial killers are notoriously charismatic. And while autistic people struggle with mirroring neurotypical social skills, thus we deem them “weird” like your title does, many are beautifully empathetic and deeply loving and caring. Indeed, neurotypical people like us could learn a lot from their honesty, loyalty, and sense of right and justice. Please don’t make life harder for autistic people by contributing to incorrect and very damaging stereotypes during this difficult time. Musk is no more representative of the D&D-playing community than he is of people with dark hair, or Americans in general. Look how your audience is already piling on to neurodiverse individuals, assuming a lack of empathy that is patently incorrect. Sarah and readers: please, please don’t be mean to disabled people during this awful time.
Thank you for listening. Please consider publicly and thoughtfully correcting your post.
Oh gosh, I'm not implying that people lacking social skills are evil. Not at all. What I'm saying is that an extreme cohort lacking the fundamental human connecting, community cohesion skills required to lead have been plonked in positions they are not equipped to handle. I say this as someone who was diagnosed with autism last year, and diagnosed with a range of "disorders' from a young age, and was vilified for being a nerd (hence I sat with the kinds of young men I describe in chemistry and physics etc). I struggle with a number of social situations and human management. Wonderfully, I get to be a writer and can lead and care from this position. I'm also able to manage intimate friendships super well, albeit with boundaries. So, I understand your points very well. But it doesn't negate the point I'm making, I don't believe.
Yarrow, I had a shower and got into bed and thought more about your comment and realised you are right - some of the phrasing of the post certainly read as though I was saying DandD gamers are problematic. I should have started off with the actual point..these kinds of men were anti-social, lacked empathy etc... then I could've referred to more specifically problematic behaviours, like, say, pulling wings off flys (which my bunsen burner buddy used to do). Again, being anti-social and unempathetic is not necessarily an issue in a society, but it is when so many people w these traits are given uncensored power, money and leadership positions beyond their capacity. Thanks for taking the time to voice your thoughts.
Thank you for being so open to feedback Sarah and for clarifying that it's the behaviour that's the problem and not the hobbies and interests of neurodivergent people.
I didn't think I was going to participate on this post, but the way the community has responded has softened my stiffened body and unfurrowed by brow.
I wasn’t going to respond either Karola, I read the post and gave Sarah the benefit of the doubt as you would a friend, seeing the point she was trying to make :)
Of course she clarified when it was requested.. this community is robust-checks and balances, love and support- it is so heartening because none of us get it right everyday
And Sarah, I’m sorry I responded to your post on a hair-trigger. These times are just so horribly stressful. I will extend more grace to everyone who means so well. Warm wishes.
I agree with you, this is a very dangerous time for everyone and anyone who doesn't fit into particular boxes. You clearly care very deeply for these wonderful people in your life, and I love that you're there for them. But I also didn't read that Sarah was "saying that children who grow up nerdy and people with autism are evil or have greater capacity for evil."
To me she described a caricature of the tech bro archetype and their followers. I don't think she painted everyone who's neurodivergent with the same brush, nor people who play DnD. Perhaps the use of the word 'spectrum' was misplaced, I'm sure she'll clarify.
I also found myself stiffening at your analogy @Sarah Wilson around the “D&D basement nerdy awkward on a spectrum” kids Sarah. I completely understand/ follow the point you were making, but I also feel it lacked your usual insight for holding space for a wide breadth of human experience and not pigeon holing ‘types’ or people. The language and imagery isn’t ideal in that it “otherises” a demographic of autistic / nerdy boys in which there is also a huge lot of variance. So while I get where you were going with it I did feel uncomfortable at the generalisation of this “type” of boy/man - it felt crude and dehumanising for those boys that fit the imagery you used, but then to follow with words like “dysfunctional” and maniacal felt abrasive. I think it would serve you (and your diverse community) better to revisit the oversimplified caricature and the link to power hungry truly awful humans.
I know such a person intimately, he has won chess championships and codes for a living. Highly intelligent and wired to be very left brain thinking, however, he has been loved, included, knows how much he is valued, diversity in the gene pool. He fights for equality of all, I’ve never met a stronger, fighter for the truth. I truely believe we as a society are failing these young men too all of our enormous peril. It is a conversation that needs to be had. I’m neurodivergent too and I have spent a life time trying to understand this dynamic and how simple antidotes make enormous differences in outcomes.
I believe in 4 cures:
- lower stress, spend time looking for ‘glimmers’ in Nature
I agree with the above for myself, too. I need a lot of time in nature, to see the patterns and to feel the calm of "how life flows".
The kind of power, accolades, lack of boundaries men like Zuckerberg etc have experienced is fuel to the fire.
To your point, Ive been on dates with two psychopaths (their description of their condition). In both cases, they had found ways to operate in the world to not hurt people. One of them is a photographer (actually they both were) and he was in business with his best friend who guided him with his social behaviour. It was so interesting to hear how he managed his life. He said he didn't like knowing he hurt people, but he simply didn't know when or how he did. Anyway...a longer discussion...One final word on it - this guy was super reliable and polite and it was easy to talk to him because everything was so straight up. No games.
Yes! You and I have the same 'cures'. I would also add connection/love to the list.
Our current system fights so hard for us not to have these simple things though. Our society dominates by avoiding our natural rhythms, it has been desperate for us to be seperate from the living world. This desperation that goes back millennia now. I think it has failed young men the most, they have been driven furthest from the real world, you can especially see it in the need to escape to fantasy worlds. The tech-bro's have been harping on about building their own techno-fiefdoms / city-states for decades now.
There's no-one more sensitive than a mother of a nerdy boy on the spectrum. A mother's experience of her son will always be one eyed. I'm sure Elons mother is protective of him and linking his lack of empathy to autism too. But the reality is, there's plenty of evidence suggesting that autistic people tend to be more likely to struggle with empathy. Yes there are some who have empathy and the fact that there's more early intervention these days probably helps, but there's no changing the facts or changing that a mother who loves her son will likely deny the facts.
hi there, I've thought about your comment here for a few hours, as I very much want to respond in grace. I was angry at first, until I asked myself where that anger comes from and what it has to teach me. Now I feel like I should say thank you, because working it all out in my mind has brought me to a place of increased empathy for everyone. I'm also aware that a hasty and emotionally charged reaction proves your point in an ironic way, which makes me laugh -- I wanted to yell "I'M NOT SENSITIVE"!!!!! 😅 I ask with genuine interest: could you please say more about how you perceive capacity for oversensitivity on a mother's part, and a difficulty with empathy within autistic existence as fact? And how a mother's love of her autistic son has a correlation with the denial of facts? A genuine, non-defensive ask: are you a mom with a nerdy autistic son, and are your observations coming from your own embodied wisdom? Is this sensitivity a beneficial thing that lends itself to an autistic person's capacity to live a meaningful life, in your understanding? The use of the words "one-eyed" and "denial" seems to suggest this is not the case, so I want to clarify that I understand your intent.
My reply here is partially based on the assumption that you've arrived at this understanding around empathy and autism anecdotally and less through a familiarity with medical literature largely developed within specific psychiatric models of (generally) agreed upon evidence based practice (like in the DSM-V). Criteria for autism changes between editions of the DSM as we learn more about how autistic brains work, and how they experience the willingness towards vulnerability that is necessary to experience empathy. So, I own that assumption and welcome being corrected if it is inaccurate.
The main things I want to respond to is "there is no one more sensitive than a mother of a nerdy boy on the spectrum", A mother's experience of her son will always be one-eyed", and "a mother who loves her son will likely deny the facts", specifically.
Please know I write this in the hopes I am contributing to the formation of empathy in this conversation *about* how other people possess or don't possess empathy. I've arrived at the sense that if things aren't borne out in dialogue, then empathy is more stunted within my life than observations around whether it exists within my son's. And that the conversation will never level up to a place where it can embody the empathy it seeks to understand unless it's honest.
I'd like to offer a different perspective to what you are saying here as someone who is both the mother of an incredibly nerdy D&D playing (and Warhammer and Gungdam) autistic son, and as a sensitive person myself.
Living with autism has taken our family to places that most families around us have not experienced -- he's spent weeks in a lockdown psychiatric unit and attends a school for the learning disabled that has required significant financial sacrifices for our whole family for years. That probably sounds like a both a weird flex seasoned with some virtue signaling. I write it in the hopes of describing the kinds of ways love expands in our family in the effort to cultivate empathy in the spaces and places we live and the decisions we make instead of constricting and legitimizing our potential defensiveness or tendency to deny facts. That suffering and sacrifice has been a profound time of learning: mostly that defensiveness, myopic approaches to things, and denial of the realities of a diagnosis will get a parent nowhere but burnout and cynicism.
What you describe here is opposite to my experience. My own tendency towards defensiveness has actually diminished. It is in fact love born out of disability that *expands* (asterisks for emphasis) a parent's capacity to acknowledge their own biases, blind spots, places of fear and the wisdom to know when a desire to protect will cause obstacles for themselves and their child.
You suggest (again, do I understand you? Please clarify if I've misunderstood) that her son's autism creates an inherent bias and sensitivity on a mom's part. You've also articulated these thoughts in a forum that has a significant number of mothers of neurodivergent children (and who themselves likely exist emotionally and socially farther afield than moms who are considered "typical", whatever that is).
With gentleness: if you are talking about what you have observed but not embodied, the generalizations that you seem to be making here about sensitive moms are equally as harmful as the generalizations we make about autism and empathy. The moms here who are asking for different language in this conversation aren't being myopic, but have a genuine vocation to bring embodied empathy into conversations around our lives and our children's lives. Clearly I can't speak for Mae Musk. But I can say that we are sensitive not out of defensiveness or blind devotion, but out of wisdom born from sitting in the discomfort of watching our kids try to navigate the world and, according to social conventions we live within, fail. And fail with consequences that are repeated and internalized over time in who they understand themselves to be.
There is the implication that it is this experience of seeing our sons suffer causes us to become defensive and deny facts. There's no doubt that denial exists in parenting, and that a parent/child relationship can be particularly fraught with assumptions and fragile points of connection -- but I'd argue wholeheartedly that this is not a factual feature or heightened reality of parenting an autistic child. On the contrary, I (and most other parents of disabled children that I have met over the past two decades) have experienced parenting a child with a disability that inhibits them socially as a process of having one's own assumptions, generalizations, and confirmed biases about parental responsibilities exploded and reborn into startlingly fertile places of increased self awareness, grace towards others (and one's self), and passion around assisting their children to live in relationships of reciprocity and mutual flourishing. At its core, this requires a parent to have a compassionate ruthlessness around identifying their own places of weakness and blindness. A mother/son relationship doesn't intrinsically carry a radical fidelity to avoiding what is threatening and rationalizing harm, which becomes heightened through the experience of disability. Rather, both these things are powerful invitations to develop humility and expand one's ability to model empathy, simply as a human hoping to contribute to healing on a social scale. Thank you for reading this far, if you have. It was important for me to respond and engage you in respectful dialogue, as it is a way for me to identify my biases and blind spots and learn from them.
I am not a mother, I have incredible neuro-divergent and able-divergent people in my world, but I do not have your lived experience. I see a lot, and care so deeply, but there is so much I am ignorant of.
I feel like, reading this, there is learning in my heart space. A broadening of what is playing out in the places I cannot see. A softening of reaction. A quieting of assumption.
Thank you for helping me grow, and giving even just a hint of the depths of a different journey.
These are beautiful words, Samantha ❤️. Thank you. Parenting a child is an experience of constant learning, constant change, and having one’s own shortcomings and places of weakness put on blast. The complexity of things like autism and ADHD make the whole endeavour that much more intense. Hugs to you and thank you so much for taking the time to write about how what I said landed for you ❤️
I've worked with children and adults on the spectrum and yes, some are empathetic humans. But I think your comment refuses to acknowledge that there is enough evidence to suggest that there is a tendency in autistic people to lack the skills that bring empathy. I've met plenty that lack empathy and whether you like it or not, there's evidence to back up the link between autism and a lack of empathy.
Yarrows and subsequent comments all have merit and truth. The DnD reference is probably not accurate but does convey an image to most people of a certain type of person, for that purpose, it is a useful tool. I am from a family of neurodivergent people, and work as a therapist with young children in this area, and we are all wonderful people. However, there is a correlation between lacking in empathy and anti-social behaviour in some men and women, that you could see as a pattern similar to that in some of those with Autism.
A colleague of mine once said that nearly all children with autism will have experienced trauma related to attachment and typical development, simply due to the inability to read others, and others not being able to read them, and needs being missed and not met. From this framework I often view these men as people who are constantly externalising their need for control onto their environment, due to high levels of anxiety from having constantly been misread or misreading what is going on. Add on their current level of power, and the outcome seems stark.
They are modern day King Napoleon's, with a society around them who is too distracted and cocooned to be shocked into action.
Sarah, whenever I read your work, I appreciate the feeling of 'open eyes'. Often this turns into 'soft gaze'. Sometimes this becomes 'gentle blinks', 'welling eyes', 'rolling tears'.
Sometimes it is also 'furrowed brow'.
Today, I feel my furrowed brow. Both at the concerning topic and awareness of the corruption in our society, and also at the language and reference used. As others have said, I did feel myself stiffen and pull back a little...
And then I come here and read the comments, which is always like a continuation and exploration of your post, and my gaze softens and my breath releases, as I witness this community of people, caring and compassionate and openly expressing their concerns. Those concerns being received and heard.
This is what it should be.
Space to express, safety to push back, responsibility to speak up, respect for each other, admission, acceptance, recognition. When we work together like this, when we share and relate and receive, this is how we build a more beautiful, compassionate world.
Thank you Sarah for creating this space.
Thank you, everyone for the work we are doing here.
That's a really nice way to receive this. I admit I let myself "rip" a little in this post. I think my tweaking of the post lands it closer to my intent. And, yes, the calm feedback from everyone here was perfect - I like being challenged.
I have been wondering why I bristled when I read this and I realised it just made me really sad. Sad for all the lonely kids out there (my daughter included) who struggle to connect.
This comment made me cry Samantha. I too felt my brow furrow and my body stiffen when I first read the post and some of the initial comments. As a neurodivergent woman, I also felt saddened by what I thought was going to be a "pile on" towards an unfair representation of some of the young men and boys I know and love.
But as always this community approaches differences with such care and a willingness to have their eyes opened to a different perspective, and the safety of speaking out when they feel something is wrong.
Thank you Samantha for your beautifully expressed words.
Oh Kristy, given the incredibly beautiful and moving comments so frequently shared from so many in this community, yourself included, I am extremely humbled by your words.
I think this space of sharing and honesty and vulnerability, has the effect of us all finding more beautiful words, and reading each others words in such a way that we receive them with the love that wrote them. 🤗
I agree with you, Sarah. Thanks for putting it in words.
Many say these billionaires-in-political-power are unelected, but we actually have elected them (unintentionally) through our spending habits. We vote with our money.
What we buy, what services and products we use as individuals and groups (businesses, government, community orgs) is a vote of support for those who make it and run it. Nothing wrong with that. It's when so many of us buy so much, and worship / celebrate / desire / envy what they represent at the same time (rich, beautiful, easy life, I want to be then when I grow up, etc).
The catch for many of us, is that their products and services are useful (hence why they got so rich and in positions of power in the first place).
This is where many of us can / have to shift our thinking around our everyday behaviour and consumption, and become a "conscious consumer" (how I think of it). If enough of us don't give them our money, then their base diminishes.
Easier said than done - but it is possible. We also have to think about our measures (and definitions) of successs, including our love affair with the rich and famous (and wanting to be like them, to copy their "success")
Again, easier said than done - but possible, especially if we get critical mass. It's the understanding that our goal is not to stop it (whatever "it" is that you're focusing on) - but to substantially reduce "its" power and opportunity.
I agree with you - the additional element is that we have been almost drugged into buying their wares. They have been able to warp the algorithms to keep us addicted and from a young age. And they've been enabled in , as you say, ensuring we are dependent on their products. They have essentially bought our attention, which is now the means of production. I'll share something more on this next week.
I am aware I am still on IG and FB...it's going to have to be a mindful transition. At the moment I feel that the platforms enable me to get messages across that I can't elsewhere and that these alternate messages have to keep being pushed. Although increasingly progressive messaging is being shadow banned etc. I'm making hay while the sun is still peaking through the clouds, so to speak.
Amen Nicole…omg our collective behaviour makes me crazy, and we can undo it! Boycott these horrendous corporations, send their share prices down-it’s happening with Tesla, why not Walmart, Wholefoods, Amazon et al You’re so right, we give them power and market share everyday day and then wonder why we’re in this predicament. We have so much more power and agency than we think.
No part of me wants to fund or support the power hungry men (boys) that have risen to from their garages thanks to the tech revolution. I was never one for Amazon as I don’t want to touch anything Bezos does, and I’m 11 days, 21 hours since I last used my remaining social media networks (yes, I’m counting it using one of those sober apps which feels apt!).
Not only do I feel good about the statement I want to make, but my nervous system has relaxed enormously. I sleep deeply through the night and I can feel my creative subconscious returning. The amount of flashing, colour and stress that has been removed from my overwhelmed brain is substantial. And as a person living with autoimmune brain disease, that is HUGE.
Conversely, I’m being forced to reckon with my internal loneliness, and thinking a lot about how to slowly build a village and the community that will be so needed in the years to come.
I'm feeling gratitude for the compassionate and robust discussion in these comments. However, for me the main response from Sarah's post was the need to avoid our small individual contribution to the business model that funds these oligarchs. These will work best by creating alternative means of getting our needs met - of how we connect with each other and purchase products. Also healthier alternatives for how we spend our time, live out our values, produce and eat our food etc. Even if such alternatives cost a little more in money and time, we will be investing in a healthier and more equal society... I acknowledge that it is easy for me to say these words, but how do I put this theory into practice - does it require me to relinguish some of my financial privilege and security, to change some habits and practices that fit societal expectations of success, etc. Having courageous companions on this journey will make it more likely that I keep travelling the road...
Thanks David, yes, my fault for using language that distracted us from the main point.
The two points are, as you say, refusing the tech bro consumption cycle, and paying attention and seeing things squarely (not getting distracted by the chaos)
And within that, I'm a little torn by the awareness of the origins and implications of the devices that every single one of us here is using, to be apart of this community.
Does the value of this space negate the costs of it's existence?
I wrestle with this and similar. For now, we have the devices, we are trapped. I'm making GOOD hay while the sun is forcing me to shine in this space. I hope to exit soon.
Is the problem the device, or how they are used? Some of the Amish community in USA refuse to drive motor cars, getting around in horse and buggy instead. Yet maybe this is too 'easy' as a way to avoid having to engage with the world and struggle with using technology as a tool for good, (without too much 'power over nature' - further fueling Jeavon's paradox). Maybe the same with phones and computers - is there a responsible way to use the devices for more good than distraction/ destruction?
I feel your sentiment Sarah, just not sure it will translate well.
This maybe slightly off topic, but it does relate to the tech bros.
For me the issues with these tech bros is the level of manipulation that have on the global narrative. Yes they have a mega phone in the pub, but it’s more wide spread and insidious, it the mega quiet phone, for the billions of global citizens who has a phone connected to social media.
The tech bros are stealing your intimate secrets and then with the help of AI and bot farms, and then tell you a story that manipulates you, it’s selling you a narrow can actually believe, however if you said it out aloud in the pub to your friends, they would laugh, because it’s happening to them too and collectively you would all realise how deeply clever this whole deception is as you all were collectively got sucked in too… We are all being scammed right now! While Trump is on display signing yet another piece of useless paper that will tie up the courts for 18 months, the Paris Agreement and the 1.5 degree rise barely made the news. As he plans to pump more carbon into atmosphere scientists stare, open mouthed and can’t run the figures fast enough to predict the outcome this will have… so he is tying up the scientists too…
And all the phone users / global citizens aren’t sitting in the same pub discussing the slightly altered messages each of us are getting, which has been altered slightly to make it palatable individually. Fox News will run several stories with bogus facts. politicians will point fingers about cost of living. We are sitting in silence having this bullahit dressed up and sold to us in many different ways, over and over again. Why, do you think the orange man is sending out hundreds of mixed messages per day? It’s just the algorithm doing its thing in the background, stealing data on what is clicked on, what is commented on, what are the responses 👍🏻👎🏻❤️🤬 .
Elon going to Mars will happen, even if it’s his coffin… but why everyone is watching this happening (left hand) , what else see they putting up in space that will effect how they can control the global community, here on earth (right hand)? This is where their money comes from and they desperately need to be the top dog, even as they sink this global civilisation. So what else is coming for one of them to gain ultimate control? That is what I want to know?They have no empathy for each other and they are all vying for the top spot. They are racking in the billions of dollars, while we pay $1 for one egg…
My question is what data are they collecting and how do they plan to use it? What are they really planning for the future (none of this smoke and mirrors stuff in the media), where they are in control and we keep being exploited / kept passive and calm? They have the data that scientists can take months, if not years to collect, run through AI simulations and predictions models. That is a wiki-type-leaks I would pay money to know and the rich are hoarding (Microsoft, Apple, Social Media Apps, Google) it from the global community, for their own business gain.
Sorry for the rant, I’m still coming to terms with how a future Microsoft operating system update is going to cause half of the technology currently in use globally, to become obsolete. How this one decision from a billionaire will cause everyone (government, corporations, business and individuals) to spend money. That is just one of the tech bros manipulating the global community and I hear very little push back… it makes me so mad that we all watching an orange monkey sign pieces of paper, while we all agree to Microsoft’s news about a new operating systems, what will cause cost trillions of dollars to be spent and e-waste to fill up our rubbish trucks. I hear the song dance monkey in my head while another billionaire makes a move behind a corporate world that makes us poorer and them richer. And we are helping them with the data they steal from our phone. <end rant> and may delete later…
Don't apologise for rants. I share the same fears. The tactic is mass distraction and we are falling for it. We have to remain outraged, without losing our sanity. We have to look at it all squarely and resist...and in large part resist by LIVING.... I can't recall if ur a subscriber and read the book?
I hear you Rochelle, it is so scary the amount of influence and market monopoly these corporations have. FYI there is simple alternative to Windows 10. My partner resurrected an old laptop that had become almost inoperative since the 10 upgrade. He (deleted all the windows crap) and installed Linux Mint, which is an open source (ie, free) operating system and says it's running like a dream. There are other options that many people are unaware of that can actually provide you with better results.
I use duckduckgo.com almost exclusively instead of google search (which funnels ads based on your previous searches so you're getting very biased results).
We really need to educate ourselves so that we are more immune to the algorithms and tactics that exploit our tendencies to be a little lazy 😔
If you do get a thread going I recently read a post on Substack from Zawn Villines about why she is staying on Facebook. She speaks of the importance of staying in the places that powerful men don't want you to be in. There are also some tips on how to use Facebook so they don't benefit. It was really good.
I've started using the duckduckgo too. I agree Ellen, we need to re-educate ourselves. Our preference for convenience has been exploited for sure. It's just a matter of going back to how things were - a bit more effort, but a lot more privacy!
I’m not convinced of their ethics Madeleine. Ecosia uses Microsoft Bing as their search engine so you still get ads and I suspect they also provide biased search results. I also suspect their “plant trees” is another tactic to lure environmentally conscious consumers to their site, but I may be paranoid? You may find this article interesting https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/technology/how-ethical-search-engine-ecosia and please do your own research (but maybe use a different search engine).
Thanks for this very important rant, Rochelle. You’ve echoed many of my concerns about what they do with our data. I know the horse has well and truly bolted, but still, I’m trying to shut the gate: starting to disentangle, to de-Google my life. Kinda hard when I use an Android phone - ha!
Finished with Twitter, too - but I hate how the advice is to not delete your profile, in case someone else nabs it and impersonates you on there. I mean, really? I’m a nobody. But, you know, protect your ‘digital real estate’ and all that.
I use different, non-tracking search engines and I’m looking for google maps and photo storage alternatives (might just have to revert to a digital camera!). It’s slow, but I’ll keep opting out as best I can.
Yes it is all concerning (and kinda creepy). I don't like the feeling of being tracked, watched.
FYI ditching Google maps is easy enough. Re-learn how to use a map, a paper map. Not sure where you are, but here in Melbourne (Australia), I still use our map book called a Melways (yes, melbournites, they still print them). You can not only navigate the city without being tracked, but it's better for your brain!
Just a suggestion Virginia. You can download your photos to a hard drive (assuming you have the means to do so) and bypass all that crap about having to pay for more "cloud storage" space. Although you won't have the convenience of having them quite so accessible.
The monopoly that google has on SO many things is really quite scary!
Thanks Ellen! I semi-regularly copy my photos to our home server (luckily my partner's an IT whizz) and delete them off Google. And my Nokia phone can take a memory card, so I should really get one so I can save pics/files on there instead.
I'm heartened to see so many of us gently wage loving commentary here, and that I don't need to be "the one" rocking the boat with "killjoy" critique... My husband and his cadre "get" Musk et al (though with caveats galore, not fanboys) and they often say there's only several billion dollars difference between them and Musk. It is a "revenge of the nerds" trope gone so far beyond the limits of reasonable human differences that my only answer is it's the money, not the spectrum.
These people get so far removed from deep connections with common folk that I believe they lose their way. As they attempt to cartoon villain annihilate humanity and the earth, with very un-cartoon like results, it sounds too hopey-changey to say "they need love" but I believe they do. Not sycophants, but genuine love.
I listen to younger men and was peripherally involved in Jordan Peterson/Joe Rogan axis because I wanted to see if it was bad as our side makes it out to be. It is and it's not. The most jarring theme is that these people have been shunned and locked out of conversations and really are seeking connection, not just toxic bro masculinity. Much like any nascently awakened activist, they want community. My own larger affinity groups have become angry and untenable to insiders as well as outsiders. The gatekeeping and thought policing is every bit as fascist in many spaces, but it's okay, we're the "good guys" except in many ways we're mirroring our oppressors.
Throwing the nerds out with the cultural bathwater is part of what got us here. We'd be wise to bring more love and understanding if we've got it in us. And we still need the fighters, the legislation, the representation-- it really does take all kinds. Disagreements and differences get us closer to truth and service to a wider swatch of humanity.
So thanks to the folks who wrote about their hackles being raised, so I could put my energy toward this ramble 🤣
it's the money, not the spectrum - yes. And, as you say, it's associated with a lack of deep connection...
I am really struggling with this whole subject. I seem to have had a whole lot of encounters with "pain the ass", horrible young boys lately (including witnessing what my friends are dealing with with their own sons). These boys I'm referring to are on the spectrum and are clearly struggling with society as it exists...but, equally, I watch as they manipulate mothers and sister around them to get what they want. I then witness men of my generation who've given up...because it's got hard...leaving the women in their lives to pick up pieces. Where is the helpful line here? Yes, everyone struggling needs love...but I wonder how much boys and men need a lot more firmness. Jordan and Joe et al merely provide yet another easy out. I'm not sure I'm making a point here...I just wanted to confirm the worth of your rant
Appreciate you receiving my under baked thoughts graciously 🙏🏼 I've been rolling this around since I commented and you're right, I see the same crap behavior you're talking about, the sort of underlying entitlement.
I was pretty surprised by the many "nice boys" I encountered when I went "undercover" to see JP and how many of my formers staff appreciate Rogan that are otherwise upstanding citizens. It softened my stance, though let me be clear, I don't think either of those dudes are role model material but they both speak to a certain "tough love" that seems to hit a sweet spot for so many that have been outcast and then exacerbated by media portrayals...
Time to write my own post before I launch into another tedtalk 🤣 there's so much in these comments and your piece that speaks to our cultural stereotypes and how reductive we can be even when we espouse radical tolerance (and the nuances of meeting people where they are) but that also give me hope we're gonna find a way through
When in fact they are highly dysfunctional individuals who sacrifice their families, their children, their relationships, their own bodies and the planet to the pursuit of the relief of the trauma inflicted on them.
Putting CEO in front of your name is a sign of severe mental illness.
Unless you happen to be a well balanced and organised individual who is interested in relationship building and good with maths and systems which support a stable organisation.
We need to immediately defund them , before they sell to the public or hedge funds. They have too much money , capital and assets already. The rest of the world is behind the eight ball.
But there business models are based on exploitation of the masses, if the masses say no. They immediately fail.
Indeed, I'm not referring to autism or neurodivergence per se. I don't mention the words. I'm referring to dysfunctional, dangerous behaviour. Thank you Marcella.
Just need to remove the work spectrum because many people who are clueless about autism believe that his psychopathy is related to autistic traits (it is not, in fact it is the opposite). And they will associate spectrum with autism because they are looking for that causal link. It is a very dangerous time to be anyone on the margins. Please don’t unintentionally make autistics a target of this new eugenics.
Hi Sarah, please see my reply to Yarrow. I'm very aware of the subtleties as someone who has been diagnosed on the spectrum. I've looked into it very deeply. It can be true that neurodivergence is a beautiful element of the human experience, vital in fact. AND it can be true that certain people with particular character traits are not equipped to manage huge amounts of power and people. AND it's also true that not all neurodivergent people lack empathy or social skills or are naturally inclined to isolate and play aggressive world domination games. I was very careful not to suggest neurodivergence is an issue, nor that it's the issue at play here nor even to suggest Elon et al are neurodivergent. Hope that clear things up.
We cannot blame his behaviour on neurodivergence. It is unrelated. It’s us NDs who are screaming the loudest about this clusterffuxk. Because we see patterns in a way that NTs do not.
I took it as a particularly demographic of the neurodiverse community of which I am very familiar. I’m neurodiverse also, diagnosed with Autism and ADhD however I’m a creative,pattern thinker, a science/ art fusion type with empathy overload and a truth seeker. We are all different, we need all types. We do need to look at this particular group objectively not defensively. We could have done things differently, who knows, sunlight, nature, diversity, inclusion, treating everyone equally. These kids are bullied. Maybe this is payback
I've been thinking about this post, Sarah, and about the boys that turned into the men that are currently running the world into the ground. I totally get where you were going with it. I agree with some of the comments here that a lack of social/relational skills, and a certain set of interests growing up are not a predictor of what this is really about: a lack of empathy and a meaning crisis. I view this as more of the worst manifestations of the patriarchy and white supremacy. It's running its course. Boys with a lot of privilege (side note Musk, Trump and Zuckerberg were also raised in affluent homes) were programmed by society, and maybe by their families too, that empathy and caring for others is not their domain. That was left to the girls and women. They learned quickly that power and money determined their self worth.
Yes, that's a really valid take - that the original issue is the patriarchal (and class) privilege that gives these men a leave pass from having to care. Perhaps a bit of a perfect storm...which is kind of what I was trying to point to. Certain things have happened in recent history that have elevated particular men ill-suited to running the world on behalf of other humans to these positions of immense power
The screenshot of the post from Mark Ruffalo - wow. Also, the irony of posting it on Elon's platform.
And Americans vote for all this because... they let themselves get dragged into culture war crap? Or they believed that billionaires would help them with the cost of eggs? They wanted to save a trillion dollars from withdrawing from the Paris agreement and thought that money would come back to them somehow and that a worsening climate crisis won't cost them much more than that? It's unfathomable. We have an election coming up here soon, how do we avoid a Trump copycat (Dutton) getting into power here?
So much irony abounds a the moment, Racheal! Another irony - Trump came to power bleating about the price of eggs...and now bird flu is sweeping the country and egg prices have gone through the roof. Mostly you can't buy them because chickens have been killed wholesale. At the same time, the agencies that manage pandemics are being stripped.
Re Dutton - I implore everyone to talk calmly about what Dutton is doing and the parallels with Trump's policies... not time to be meek at barbecues!
Thanks for plonking it all on the table Sarah. There has never been a more important time to NOT mince words!
I was lucky enough to have gone to a Gross National Happiness event at Small Giants this week, and Berry said something that I have tried to pull to the front of my brain since (everytime the next unbelieveable thing becomes reality) - we need to remember and lead with what we are for, not what we are against.
It is interesting, ‘this particular demographic within the neurodiverse community’ living in their mother’s basements… They were safe there, could do little harm, hated on their mothers because that was both their safe person and a reminder of their own deep failures.
What a turn around for them now to have all the power and money. Still find empathy a challenge, are disconnected from the world around them, they are prone to creating their own fantasy world in their basements. And if left unchecked they have horrible disdain for their mothers and other women.
I reckon drag all kids out into nature, especially these kids, talk about glimmers, get them connected. It’s the only thing that works, reconnection and love.
The hatred of women is very real, I agree. I mean Zuckerberg built his empire on it. Interestingly, bullies and kids with behavioural issues in South Korea are bused out to nature camps as a first course of action, before being put on Ritalin etc. I write about this in my last book.
Interesting article by George Monbiot in the Guardian just now. I may be out of the loop news-wise, but this is the most main-stream coverage of collapse I’ve seen.
If we follow the money (and the telephone calls to Russian oligarchs), his intent seems mostly to be to destroy the US. Maybe in the pursuit of rebuilding it under techno-feudalism.
Creating chaos is definitely the tactic here - to distract us. And tearing things down. Kara Swisher talks about how the tech bros operate to this idea - not improving or fixing, but tearing down...almost a dopamine rush thing.
Sarah, I share your horror at everything happening in DC, and deep disgust with Musk, Trump, Zuckerberg, etc. And I appreciate the message that they are a few awful actors and not representative of Americans as a whole. However, I implore you – with all my heart – to rethink the associations you make here between their evil behavior and D&D, social skills, “spectrums.” Essentially, you seem to be saying that children who grow up nerdy and people with autism are evil or have greater capacity for evil. What an awful thing, to attack a group of people who already have a tough time in life. I know and love children on the spectrum, who spend much of their time on screens to escape the very big challenges of engaging with a neurotypical world that refuses (as you have) to understand them. Some of the autistic kids I know are truly the most empathetic, pro-social, loving, and well-intentioned people I can think of. Their capacity to care is inspiring. Their sense of justice is very strong. These kids feel empathy viscerally and tearfully, and they despise Trump because he embodies meanness and lack of empathy. As people with disabilities, they are also targets whose rights (including ability to obtain an equal education in public schools) are threatened right now. I am so scared for their futures. Please rethink blaming people on the spectrum for the horrendous things that Musk is doing. And understand that social skills and empathy are two VERY different things. For example, some say Trump has strong social skills and charisma, but no one can argue he has empathy. Many serial killers are notoriously charismatic. And while autistic people struggle with mirroring neurotypical social skills, thus we deem them “weird” like your title does, many are beautifully empathetic and deeply loving and caring. Indeed, neurotypical people like us could learn a lot from their honesty, loyalty, and sense of right and justice. Please don’t make life harder for autistic people by contributing to incorrect and very damaging stereotypes during this difficult time. Musk is no more representative of the D&D-playing community than he is of people with dark hair, or Americans in general. Look how your audience is already piling on to neurodiverse individuals, assuming a lack of empathy that is patently incorrect. Sarah and readers: please, please don’t be mean to disabled people during this awful time.
Thank you for listening. Please consider publicly and thoughtfully correcting your post.
Oh gosh, I'm not implying that people lacking social skills are evil. Not at all. What I'm saying is that an extreme cohort lacking the fundamental human connecting, community cohesion skills required to lead have been plonked in positions they are not equipped to handle. I say this as someone who was diagnosed with autism last year, and diagnosed with a range of "disorders' from a young age, and was vilified for being a nerd (hence I sat with the kinds of young men I describe in chemistry and physics etc). I struggle with a number of social situations and human management. Wonderfully, I get to be a writer and can lead and care from this position. I'm also able to manage intimate friendships super well, albeit with boundaries. So, I understand your points very well. But it doesn't negate the point I'm making, I don't believe.
Yarrow, I had a shower and got into bed and thought more about your comment and realised you are right - some of the phrasing of the post certainly read as though I was saying DandD gamers are problematic. I should have started off with the actual point..these kinds of men were anti-social, lacked empathy etc... then I could've referred to more specifically problematic behaviours, like, say, pulling wings off flys (which my bunsen burner buddy used to do). Again, being anti-social and unempathetic is not necessarily an issue in a society, but it is when so many people w these traits are given uncensored power, money and leadership positions beyond their capacity. Thanks for taking the time to voice your thoughts.
Thank you for being so open to feedback Sarah and for clarifying that it's the behaviour that's the problem and not the hobbies and interests of neurodivergent people.
I didn't think I was going to participate on this post, but the way the community has responded has softened my stiffened body and unfurrowed by brow.
I wasn’t going to respond either Karola, I read the post and gave Sarah the benefit of the doubt as you would a friend, seeing the point she was trying to make :)
Of course she clarified when it was requested.. this community is robust-checks and balances, love and support- it is so heartening because none of us get it right everyday
Thanks so much for reflecting, and sharing your further thoughts. Likewise, I understand better now what you were trying to say.
And Sarah, I’m sorry I responded to your post on a hair-trigger. These times are just so horribly stressful. I will extend more grace to everyone who means so well. Warm wishes.
I agree with you, this is a very dangerous time for everyone and anyone who doesn't fit into particular boxes. You clearly care very deeply for these wonderful people in your life, and I love that you're there for them. But I also didn't read that Sarah was "saying that children who grow up nerdy and people with autism are evil or have greater capacity for evil."
To me she described a caricature of the tech bro archetype and their followers. I don't think she painted everyone who's neurodivergent with the same brush, nor people who play DnD. Perhaps the use of the word 'spectrum' was misplaced, I'm sure she'll clarify.
thanks Hamersley, I do. x
Yes needs tweeking
I also found myself stiffening at your analogy @Sarah Wilson around the “D&D basement nerdy awkward on a spectrum” kids Sarah. I completely understand/ follow the point you were making, but I also feel it lacked your usual insight for holding space for a wide breadth of human experience and not pigeon holing ‘types’ or people. The language and imagery isn’t ideal in that it “otherises” a demographic of autistic / nerdy boys in which there is also a huge lot of variance. So while I get where you were going with it I did feel uncomfortable at the generalisation of this “type” of boy/man - it felt crude and dehumanising for those boys that fit the imagery you used, but then to follow with words like “dysfunctional” and maniacal felt abrasive. I think it would serve you (and your diverse community) better to revisit the oversimplified caricature and the link to power hungry truly awful humans.
I know such a person intimately, he has won chess championships and codes for a living. Highly intelligent and wired to be very left brain thinking, however, he has been loved, included, knows how much he is valued, diversity in the gene pool. He fights for equality of all, I’ve never met a stronger, fighter for the truth. I truely believe we as a society are failing these young men too all of our enormous peril. It is a conversation that needs to be had. I’m neurodivergent too and I have spent a life time trying to understand this dynamic and how simple antidotes make enormous differences in outcomes.
I believe in 4 cures:
- lower stress, spend time looking for ‘glimmers’ in Nature
- prioritise sleep, natural light, embrace circadian rhythms
- a low inflammation diet, low carb, high protein, no chemicals
- regular exercise
I agree with the above for myself, too. I need a lot of time in nature, to see the patterns and to feel the calm of "how life flows".
The kind of power, accolades, lack of boundaries men like Zuckerberg etc have experienced is fuel to the fire.
To your point, Ive been on dates with two psychopaths (their description of their condition). In both cases, they had found ways to operate in the world to not hurt people. One of them is a photographer (actually they both were) and he was in business with his best friend who guided him with his social behaviour. It was so interesting to hear how he managed his life. He said he didn't like knowing he hurt people, but he simply didn't know when or how he did. Anyway...a longer discussion...One final word on it - this guy was super reliable and polite and it was easy to talk to him because everything was so straight up. No games.
Yes! You and I have the same 'cures'. I would also add connection/love to the list.
Our current system fights so hard for us not to have these simple things though. Our society dominates by avoiding our natural rhythms, it has been desperate for us to be seperate from the living world. This desperation that goes back millennia now. I think it has failed young men the most, they have been driven furthest from the real world, you can especially see it in the need to escape to fantasy worlds. The tech-bro's have been harping on about building their own techno-fiefdoms / city-states for decades now.
There's no-one more sensitive than a mother of a nerdy boy on the spectrum. A mother's experience of her son will always be one eyed. I'm sure Elons mother is protective of him and linking his lack of empathy to autism too. But the reality is, there's plenty of evidence suggesting that autistic people tend to be more likely to struggle with empathy. Yes there are some who have empathy and the fact that there's more early intervention these days probably helps, but there's no changing the facts or changing that a mother who loves her son will likely deny the facts.
hi there, I've thought about your comment here for a few hours, as I very much want to respond in grace. I was angry at first, until I asked myself where that anger comes from and what it has to teach me. Now I feel like I should say thank you, because working it all out in my mind has brought me to a place of increased empathy for everyone. I'm also aware that a hasty and emotionally charged reaction proves your point in an ironic way, which makes me laugh -- I wanted to yell "I'M NOT SENSITIVE"!!!!! 😅 I ask with genuine interest: could you please say more about how you perceive capacity for oversensitivity on a mother's part, and a difficulty with empathy within autistic existence as fact? And how a mother's love of her autistic son has a correlation with the denial of facts? A genuine, non-defensive ask: are you a mom with a nerdy autistic son, and are your observations coming from your own embodied wisdom? Is this sensitivity a beneficial thing that lends itself to an autistic person's capacity to live a meaningful life, in your understanding? The use of the words "one-eyed" and "denial" seems to suggest this is not the case, so I want to clarify that I understand your intent.
My reply here is partially based on the assumption that you've arrived at this understanding around empathy and autism anecdotally and less through a familiarity with medical literature largely developed within specific psychiatric models of (generally) agreed upon evidence based practice (like in the DSM-V). Criteria for autism changes between editions of the DSM as we learn more about how autistic brains work, and how they experience the willingness towards vulnerability that is necessary to experience empathy. So, I own that assumption and welcome being corrected if it is inaccurate.
The main things I want to respond to is "there is no one more sensitive than a mother of a nerdy boy on the spectrum", A mother's experience of her son will always be one-eyed", and "a mother who loves her son will likely deny the facts", specifically.
Please know I write this in the hopes I am contributing to the formation of empathy in this conversation *about* how other people possess or don't possess empathy. I've arrived at the sense that if things aren't borne out in dialogue, then empathy is more stunted within my life than observations around whether it exists within my son's. And that the conversation will never level up to a place where it can embody the empathy it seeks to understand unless it's honest.
I'd like to offer a different perspective to what you are saying here as someone who is both the mother of an incredibly nerdy D&D playing (and Warhammer and Gungdam) autistic son, and as a sensitive person myself.
Living with autism has taken our family to places that most families around us have not experienced -- he's spent weeks in a lockdown psychiatric unit and attends a school for the learning disabled that has required significant financial sacrifices for our whole family for years. That probably sounds like a both a weird flex seasoned with some virtue signaling. I write it in the hopes of describing the kinds of ways love expands in our family in the effort to cultivate empathy in the spaces and places we live and the decisions we make instead of constricting and legitimizing our potential defensiveness or tendency to deny facts. That suffering and sacrifice has been a profound time of learning: mostly that defensiveness, myopic approaches to things, and denial of the realities of a diagnosis will get a parent nowhere but burnout and cynicism.
What you describe here is opposite to my experience. My own tendency towards defensiveness has actually diminished. It is in fact love born out of disability that *expands* (asterisks for emphasis) a parent's capacity to acknowledge their own biases, blind spots, places of fear and the wisdom to know when a desire to protect will cause obstacles for themselves and their child.
You suggest (again, do I understand you? Please clarify if I've misunderstood) that her son's autism creates an inherent bias and sensitivity on a mom's part. You've also articulated these thoughts in a forum that has a significant number of mothers of neurodivergent children (and who themselves likely exist emotionally and socially farther afield than moms who are considered "typical", whatever that is).
With gentleness: if you are talking about what you have observed but not embodied, the generalizations that you seem to be making here about sensitive moms are equally as harmful as the generalizations we make about autism and empathy. The moms here who are asking for different language in this conversation aren't being myopic, but have a genuine vocation to bring embodied empathy into conversations around our lives and our children's lives. Clearly I can't speak for Mae Musk. But I can say that we are sensitive not out of defensiveness or blind devotion, but out of wisdom born from sitting in the discomfort of watching our kids try to navigate the world and, according to social conventions we live within, fail. And fail with consequences that are repeated and internalized over time in who they understand themselves to be.
There is the implication that it is this experience of seeing our sons suffer causes us to become defensive and deny facts. There's no doubt that denial exists in parenting, and that a parent/child relationship can be particularly fraught with assumptions and fragile points of connection -- but I'd argue wholeheartedly that this is not a factual feature or heightened reality of parenting an autistic child. On the contrary, I (and most other parents of disabled children that I have met over the past two decades) have experienced parenting a child with a disability that inhibits them socially as a process of having one's own assumptions, generalizations, and confirmed biases about parental responsibilities exploded and reborn into startlingly fertile places of increased self awareness, grace towards others (and one's self), and passion around assisting their children to live in relationships of reciprocity and mutual flourishing. At its core, this requires a parent to have a compassionate ruthlessness around identifying their own places of weakness and blindness. A mother/son relationship doesn't intrinsically carry a radical fidelity to avoiding what is threatening and rationalizing harm, which becomes heightened through the experience of disability. Rather, both these things are powerful invitations to develop humility and expand one's ability to model empathy, simply as a human hoping to contribute to healing on a social scale. Thank you for reading this far, if you have. It was important for me to respond and engage you in respectful dialogue, as it is a way for me to identify my biases and blind spots and learn from them.
Madeleine. I felt every word you just wrote. 🤗
Thank you for sharing so fully.
I am not a mother, I have incredible neuro-divergent and able-divergent people in my world, but I do not have your lived experience. I see a lot, and care so deeply, but there is so much I am ignorant of.
I feel like, reading this, there is learning in my heart space. A broadening of what is playing out in the places I cannot see. A softening of reaction. A quieting of assumption.
Thank you for helping me grow, and giving even just a hint of the depths of a different journey.
🙏
These are beautiful words, Samantha ❤️. Thank you. Parenting a child is an experience of constant learning, constant change, and having one’s own shortcomings and places of weakness put on blast. The complexity of things like autism and ADHD make the whole endeavour that much more intense. Hugs to you and thank you so much for taking the time to write about how what I said landed for you ❤️
I hear you Madeleine. xx
There is a mother son thing, already
Despite a diagnosis.
I find.
Thank you, you have articulated my thoughts exactly!
I've worked with children and adults on the spectrum and yes, some are empathetic humans. But I think your comment refuses to acknowledge that there is enough evidence to suggest that there is a tendency in autistic people to lack the skills that bring empathy. I've met plenty that lack empathy and whether you like it or not, there's evidence to back up the link between autism and a lack of empathy.
Yarrows and subsequent comments all have merit and truth. The DnD reference is probably not accurate but does convey an image to most people of a certain type of person, for that purpose, it is a useful tool. I am from a family of neurodivergent people, and work as a therapist with young children in this area, and we are all wonderful people. However, there is a correlation between lacking in empathy and anti-social behaviour in some men and women, that you could see as a pattern similar to that in some of those with Autism.
A colleague of mine once said that nearly all children with autism will have experienced trauma related to attachment and typical development, simply due to the inability to read others, and others not being able to read them, and needs being missed and not met. From this framework I often view these men as people who are constantly externalising their need for control onto their environment, due to high levels of anxiety from having constantly been misread or misreading what is going on. Add on their current level of power, and the outcome seems stark.
They are modern day King Napoleon's, with a society around them who is too distracted and cocooned to be shocked into action.
Sarah, whenever I read your work, I appreciate the feeling of 'open eyes'. Often this turns into 'soft gaze'. Sometimes this becomes 'gentle blinks', 'welling eyes', 'rolling tears'.
Sometimes it is also 'furrowed brow'.
Today, I feel my furrowed brow. Both at the concerning topic and awareness of the corruption in our society, and also at the language and reference used. As others have said, I did feel myself stiffen and pull back a little...
And then I come here and read the comments, which is always like a continuation and exploration of your post, and my gaze softens and my breath releases, as I witness this community of people, caring and compassionate and openly expressing their concerns. Those concerns being received and heard.
This is what it should be.
Space to express, safety to push back, responsibility to speak up, respect for each other, admission, acceptance, recognition. When we work together like this, when we share and relate and receive, this is how we build a more beautiful, compassionate world.
Thank you Sarah for creating this space.
Thank you, everyone for the work we are doing here.
🙏
That's a really nice way to receive this. I admit I let myself "rip" a little in this post. I think my tweaking of the post lands it closer to my intent. And, yes, the calm feedback from everyone here was perfect - I like being challenged.
I have been wondering why I bristled when I read this and I realised it just made me really sad. Sad for all the lonely kids out there (my daughter included) who struggle to connect.
This comment made me cry Samantha. I too felt my brow furrow and my body stiffen when I first read the post and some of the initial comments. As a neurodivergent woman, I also felt saddened by what I thought was going to be a "pile on" towards an unfair representation of some of the young men and boys I know and love.
But as always this community approaches differences with such care and a willingness to have their eyes opened to a different perspective, and the safety of speaking out when they feel something is wrong.
Thank you Samantha for your beautifully expressed words.
Thank you Karola 🙏
Our brows furrow together.
Our tears fall together.
Our breath flows together.
We heal together.
We grow together.
Beautiful 🩷
Samantha P. this is the most beautiful comment I have ever read. Thank you.
Oh Kristy, given the incredibly beautiful and moving comments so frequently shared from so many in this community, yourself included, I am extremely humbled by your words.
Thank you for your kindness 🙏
I agree Kristy, I think Samantha P. has a gift with words. I just re read them and they are so beautiful.
Thank you Karola 🙏
I think this space of sharing and honesty and vulnerability, has the effect of us all finding more beautiful words, and reading each others words in such a way that we receive them with the love that wrote them. 🤗
I agree with you, Sarah. Thanks for putting it in words.
Many say these billionaires-in-political-power are unelected, but we actually have elected them (unintentionally) through our spending habits. We vote with our money.
What we buy, what services and products we use as individuals and groups (businesses, government, community orgs) is a vote of support for those who make it and run it. Nothing wrong with that. It's when so many of us buy so much, and worship / celebrate / desire / envy what they represent at the same time (rich, beautiful, easy life, I want to be then when I grow up, etc).
The catch for many of us, is that their products and services are useful (hence why they got so rich and in positions of power in the first place).
This is where many of us can / have to shift our thinking around our everyday behaviour and consumption, and become a "conscious consumer" (how I think of it). If enough of us don't give them our money, then their base diminishes.
Easier said than done - but it is possible. We also have to think about our measures (and definitions) of successs, including our love affair with the rich and famous (and wanting to be like them, to copy their "success")
Again, easier said than done - but possible, especially if we get critical mass. It's the understanding that our goal is not to stop it (whatever "it" is that you're focusing on) - but to substantially reduce "its" power and opportunity.
I agree with you - the additional element is that we have been almost drugged into buying their wares. They have been able to warp the algorithms to keep us addicted and from a young age. And they've been enabled in , as you say, ensuring we are dependent on their products. They have essentially bought our attention, which is now the means of production. I'll share something more on this next week.
I am aware I am still on IG and FB...it's going to have to be a mindful transition. At the moment I feel that the platforms enable me to get messages across that I can't elsewhere and that these alternate messages have to keep being pushed. Although increasingly progressive messaging is being shadow banned etc. I'm making hay while the sun is still peaking through the clouds, so to speak.
Amen Nicole…omg our collective behaviour makes me crazy, and we can undo it! Boycott these horrendous corporations, send their share prices down-it’s happening with Tesla, why not Walmart, Wholefoods, Amazon et al You’re so right, we give them power and market share everyday day and then wonder why we’re in this predicament. We have so much more power and agency than we think.
I agree as well but I don't think the majority of people want to give up anything. I would love to live in a world without smart phones.
No part of me wants to fund or support the power hungry men (boys) that have risen to from their garages thanks to the tech revolution. I was never one for Amazon as I don’t want to touch anything Bezos does, and I’m 11 days, 21 hours since I last used my remaining social media networks (yes, I’m counting it using one of those sober apps which feels apt!).
Not only do I feel good about the statement I want to make, but my nervous system has relaxed enormously. I sleep deeply through the night and I can feel my creative subconscious returning. The amount of flashing, colour and stress that has been removed from my overwhelmed brain is substantial. And as a person living with autoimmune brain disease, that is HUGE.
Conversely, I’m being forced to reckon with my internal loneliness, and thinking a lot about how to slowly build a village and the community that will be so needed in the years to come.
But I feel so free. And that’s everything.
Thank you Laura - you make me want to do this now. And yes, I hear you about the internal loneliness, and the need to build community.
I'm feeling gratitude for the compassionate and robust discussion in these comments. However, for me the main response from Sarah's post was the need to avoid our small individual contribution to the business model that funds these oligarchs. These will work best by creating alternative means of getting our needs met - of how we connect with each other and purchase products. Also healthier alternatives for how we spend our time, live out our values, produce and eat our food etc. Even if such alternatives cost a little more in money and time, we will be investing in a healthier and more equal society... I acknowledge that it is easy for me to say these words, but how do I put this theory into practice - does it require me to relinguish some of my financial privilege and security, to change some habits and practices that fit societal expectations of success, etc. Having courageous companions on this journey will make it more likely that I keep travelling the road...
Thanks David, yes, my fault for using language that distracted us from the main point.
The two points are, as you say, refusing the tech bro consumption cycle, and paying attention and seeing things squarely (not getting distracted by the chaos)
Yes I agree David.
And within that, I'm a little torn by the awareness of the origins and implications of the devices that every single one of us here is using, to be apart of this community.
Does the value of this space negate the costs of it's existence?
I wrestle with this and similar. For now, we have the devices, we are trapped. I'm making GOOD hay while the sun is forcing me to shine in this space. I hope to exit soon.
Is the problem the device, or how they are used? Some of the Amish community in USA refuse to drive motor cars, getting around in horse and buggy instead. Yet maybe this is too 'easy' as a way to avoid having to engage with the world and struggle with using technology as a tool for good, (without too much 'power over nature' - further fueling Jeavon's paradox). Maybe the same with phones and computers - is there a responsible way to use the devices for more good than distraction/ destruction?
I feel your sentiment Sarah, just not sure it will translate well.
This maybe slightly off topic, but it does relate to the tech bros.
For me the issues with these tech bros is the level of manipulation that have on the global narrative. Yes they have a mega phone in the pub, but it’s more wide spread and insidious, it the mega quiet phone, for the billions of global citizens who has a phone connected to social media.
The tech bros are stealing your intimate secrets and then with the help of AI and bot farms, and then tell you a story that manipulates you, it’s selling you a narrow can actually believe, however if you said it out aloud in the pub to your friends, they would laugh, because it’s happening to them too and collectively you would all realise how deeply clever this whole deception is as you all were collectively got sucked in too… We are all being scammed right now! While Trump is on display signing yet another piece of useless paper that will tie up the courts for 18 months, the Paris Agreement and the 1.5 degree rise barely made the news. As he plans to pump more carbon into atmosphere scientists stare, open mouthed and can’t run the figures fast enough to predict the outcome this will have… so he is tying up the scientists too…
And all the phone users / global citizens aren’t sitting in the same pub discussing the slightly altered messages each of us are getting, which has been altered slightly to make it palatable individually. Fox News will run several stories with bogus facts. politicians will point fingers about cost of living. We are sitting in silence having this bullahit dressed up and sold to us in many different ways, over and over again. Why, do you think the orange man is sending out hundreds of mixed messages per day? It’s just the algorithm doing its thing in the background, stealing data on what is clicked on, what is commented on, what are the responses 👍🏻👎🏻❤️🤬 .
Elon going to Mars will happen, even if it’s his coffin… but why everyone is watching this happening (left hand) , what else see they putting up in space that will effect how they can control the global community, here on earth (right hand)? This is where their money comes from and they desperately need to be the top dog, even as they sink this global civilisation. So what else is coming for one of them to gain ultimate control? That is what I want to know?They have no empathy for each other and they are all vying for the top spot. They are racking in the billions of dollars, while we pay $1 for one egg…
My question is what data are they collecting and how do they plan to use it? What are they really planning for the future (none of this smoke and mirrors stuff in the media), where they are in control and we keep being exploited / kept passive and calm? They have the data that scientists can take months, if not years to collect, run through AI simulations and predictions models. That is a wiki-type-leaks I would pay money to know and the rich are hoarding (Microsoft, Apple, Social Media Apps, Google) it from the global community, for their own business gain.
Sorry for the rant, I’m still coming to terms with how a future Microsoft operating system update is going to cause half of the technology currently in use globally, to become obsolete. How this one decision from a billionaire will cause everyone (government, corporations, business and individuals) to spend money. That is just one of the tech bros manipulating the global community and I hear very little push back… it makes me so mad that we all watching an orange monkey sign pieces of paper, while we all agree to Microsoft’s news about a new operating systems, what will cause cost trillions of dollars to be spent and e-waste to fill up our rubbish trucks. I hear the song dance monkey in my head while another billionaire makes a move behind a corporate world that makes us poorer and them richer. And we are helping them with the data they steal from our phone. <end rant> and may delete later…
Don't apologise for rants. I share the same fears. The tactic is mass distraction and we are falling for it. We have to remain outraged, without losing our sanity. We have to look at it all squarely and resist...and in large part resist by LIVING.... I can't recall if ur a subscriber and read the book?
Thank you 🙏 Yes a subscriber and have read the book.
I hear you Rochelle, it is so scary the amount of influence and market monopoly these corporations have. FYI there is simple alternative to Windows 10. My partner resurrected an old laptop that had become almost inoperative since the 10 upgrade. He (deleted all the windows crap) and installed Linux Mint, which is an open source (ie, free) operating system and says it's running like a dream. There are other options that many people are unaware of that can actually provide you with better results.
I use duckduckgo.com almost exclusively instead of google search (which funnels ads based on your previous searches so you're getting very biased results).
We really need to educate ourselves so that we are more immune to the algorithms and tactics that exploit our tendencies to be a little lazy 😔
Thnaks for these tips. I might get a thread going for these kinds of tips
If you do get a thread going I recently read a post on Substack from Zawn Villines about why she is staying on Facebook. She speaks of the importance of staying in the places that powerful men don't want you to be in. There are also some tips on how to use Facebook so they don't benefit. It was really good.
https://zawn.substack.com/p/in-defense-of-staying-where-powerful
I've started using the duckduckgo too. I agree Ellen, we need to re-educate ourselves. Our preference for convenience has been exploited for sure. It's just a matter of going back to how things were - a bit more effort, but a lot more privacy!
Ecosia is also good
I’m not convinced of their ethics Madeleine. Ecosia uses Microsoft Bing as their search engine so you still get ads and I suspect they also provide biased search results. I also suspect their “plant trees” is another tactic to lure environmentally conscious consumers to their site, but I may be paranoid? You may find this article interesting https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/technology/how-ethical-search-engine-ecosia and please do your own research (but maybe use a different search engine).
oh wow, I didn't know. Thanks for this!
Thanks for this very important rant, Rochelle. You’ve echoed many of my concerns about what they do with our data. I know the horse has well and truly bolted, but still, I’m trying to shut the gate: starting to disentangle, to de-Google my life. Kinda hard when I use an Android phone - ha!
Finished with Twitter, too - but I hate how the advice is to not delete your profile, in case someone else nabs it and impersonates you on there. I mean, really? I’m a nobody. But, you know, protect your ‘digital real estate’ and all that.
I use different, non-tracking search engines and I’m looking for google maps and photo storage alternatives (might just have to revert to a digital camera!). It’s slow, but I’ll keep opting out as best I can.
Yes it is all concerning (and kinda creepy). I don't like the feeling of being tracked, watched.
FYI ditching Google maps is easy enough. Re-learn how to use a map, a paper map. Not sure where you are, but here in Melbourne (Australia), I still use our map book called a Melways (yes, melbournites, they still print them). You can not only navigate the city without being tracked, but it's better for your brain!
So much better for your brain. I love not using my phone for getting places...I intentionally resist it to access that part of my brain.
I'm in Sydney - and threw out my ancient (2005?) Gregory's street directory last year. Thanks for the prompt to get a new one, Samantha! :-)
Just a suggestion Virginia. You can download your photos to a hard drive (assuming you have the means to do so) and bypass all that crap about having to pay for more "cloud storage" space. Although you won't have the convenience of having them quite so accessible.
The monopoly that google has on SO many things is really quite scary!
Thanks Ellen! I semi-regularly copy my photos to our home server (luckily my partner's an IT whizz) and delete them off Google. And my Nokia phone can take a memory card, so I should really get one so I can save pics/files on there instead.
I hope you don't delete. It's an important rant. I wonder what they are planning too.
Rochelle, I've been thinking about this post for days. Thank you. You've put into words something I've felt but lacked language for.
I'm heartened to see so many of us gently wage loving commentary here, and that I don't need to be "the one" rocking the boat with "killjoy" critique... My husband and his cadre "get" Musk et al (though with caveats galore, not fanboys) and they often say there's only several billion dollars difference between them and Musk. It is a "revenge of the nerds" trope gone so far beyond the limits of reasonable human differences that my only answer is it's the money, not the spectrum.
These people get so far removed from deep connections with common folk that I believe they lose their way. As they attempt to cartoon villain annihilate humanity and the earth, with very un-cartoon like results, it sounds too hopey-changey to say "they need love" but I believe they do. Not sycophants, but genuine love.
I listen to younger men and was peripherally involved in Jordan Peterson/Joe Rogan axis because I wanted to see if it was bad as our side makes it out to be. It is and it's not. The most jarring theme is that these people have been shunned and locked out of conversations and really are seeking connection, not just toxic bro masculinity. Much like any nascently awakened activist, they want community. My own larger affinity groups have become angry and untenable to insiders as well as outsiders. The gatekeeping and thought policing is every bit as fascist in many spaces, but it's okay, we're the "good guys" except in many ways we're mirroring our oppressors.
Throwing the nerds out with the cultural bathwater is part of what got us here. We'd be wise to bring more love and understanding if we've got it in us. And we still need the fighters, the legislation, the representation-- it really does take all kinds. Disagreements and differences get us closer to truth and service to a wider swatch of humanity.
So thanks to the folks who wrote about their hackles being raised, so I could put my energy toward this ramble 🤣
Bee, this rant was super helpful for me.
it's the money, not the spectrum - yes. And, as you say, it's associated with a lack of deep connection...
I am really struggling with this whole subject. I seem to have had a whole lot of encounters with "pain the ass", horrible young boys lately (including witnessing what my friends are dealing with with their own sons). These boys I'm referring to are on the spectrum and are clearly struggling with society as it exists...but, equally, I watch as they manipulate mothers and sister around them to get what they want. I then witness men of my generation who've given up...because it's got hard...leaving the women in their lives to pick up pieces. Where is the helpful line here? Yes, everyone struggling needs love...but I wonder how much boys and men need a lot more firmness. Jordan and Joe et al merely provide yet another easy out. I'm not sure I'm making a point here...I just wanted to confirm the worth of your rant
Appreciate you receiving my under baked thoughts graciously 🙏🏼 I've been rolling this around since I commented and you're right, I see the same crap behavior you're talking about, the sort of underlying entitlement.
I was pretty surprised by the many "nice boys" I encountered when I went "undercover" to see JP and how many of my formers staff appreciate Rogan that are otherwise upstanding citizens. It softened my stance, though let me be clear, I don't think either of those dudes are role model material but they both speak to a certain "tough love" that seems to hit a sweet spot for so many that have been outcast and then exacerbated by media portrayals...
Time to write my own post before I launch into another tedtalk 🤣 there's so much in these comments and your piece that speaks to our cultural stereotypes and how reductive we can be even when we espouse radical tolerance (and the nuances of meeting people where they are) but that also give me hope we're gonna find a way through
I appreciate your ramble Bee. I totally agree with you. Its the money and power that is the problem.
It is a thing Sarah
We gave them the keys to the kingdom
We made CEOs gods
When in fact they are highly dysfunctional individuals who sacrifice their families, their children, their relationships, their own bodies and the planet to the pursuit of the relief of the trauma inflicted on them.
Putting CEO in front of your name is a sign of severe mental illness.
Unless you happen to be a well balanced and organised individual who is interested in relationship building and good with maths and systems which support a stable organisation.
We need to immediately defund them , before they sell to the public or hedge funds. They have too much money , capital and assets already. The rest of the world is behind the eight ball.
But there business models are based on exploitation of the masses, if the masses say no. They immediately fail.
I think the masses will soon say no. In part because they'll be forced to.
Friends, I don’t believe Sarah was describing all people on the autism spectrum any more than she was describing all men.
Indeed, I'm not referring to autism or neurodivergence per se. I don't mention the words. I'm referring to dysfunctional, dangerous behaviour. Thank you Marcella.
Just need to remove the work spectrum because many people who are clueless about autism believe that his psychopathy is related to autistic traits (it is not, in fact it is the opposite). And they will associate spectrum with autism because they are looking for that causal link. It is a very dangerous time to be anyone on the margins. Please don’t unintentionally make autistics a target of this new eugenics.
Hi Sarah.
This take on... spectrum....someones weird brother...basements and lack of social skills are generalisations.
Please look into the neurodivergent realm much deeper and softer.
Musk and so are their own identity.
Hi Sarah, please see my reply to Yarrow. I'm very aware of the subtleties as someone who has been diagnosed on the spectrum. I've looked into it very deeply. It can be true that neurodivergence is a beautiful element of the human experience, vital in fact. AND it can be true that certain people with particular character traits are not equipped to manage huge amounts of power and people. AND it's also true that not all neurodivergent people lack empathy or social skills or are naturally inclined to isolate and play aggressive world domination games. I was very careful not to suggest neurodivergence is an issue, nor that it's the issue at play here nor even to suggest Elon et al are neurodivergent. Hope that clear things up.
We cannot blame his behaviour on neurodivergence. It is unrelated. It’s us NDs who are screaming the loudest about this clusterffuxk. Because we see patterns in a way that NTs do not.
Thanks Sarah
The initial read just doesn't feel right for me.
I edited very lightly - to clarify spectrum I mean (ie broad behavioural one, with Elon et al occupying the anti-social, dangerous end)
Nice.
Words hey.
thanks for speaking up!
I took it as a particularly demographic of the neurodiverse community of which I am very familiar. I’m neurodiverse also, diagnosed with Autism and ADhD however I’m a creative,pattern thinker, a science/ art fusion type with empathy overload and a truth seeker. We are all different, we need all types. We do need to look at this particular group objectively not defensively. We could have done things differently, who knows, sunlight, nature, diversity, inclusion, treating everyone equally. These kids are bullied. Maybe this is payback
yes, I am genuinely referring to dysfunctional anti-social behaviour...
I've been thinking about this post, Sarah, and about the boys that turned into the men that are currently running the world into the ground. I totally get where you were going with it. I agree with some of the comments here that a lack of social/relational skills, and a certain set of interests growing up are not a predictor of what this is really about: a lack of empathy and a meaning crisis. I view this as more of the worst manifestations of the patriarchy and white supremacy. It's running its course. Boys with a lot of privilege (side note Musk, Trump and Zuckerberg were also raised in affluent homes) were programmed by society, and maybe by their families too, that empathy and caring for others is not their domain. That was left to the girls and women. They learned quickly that power and money determined their self worth.
Yes, that's a really valid take - that the original issue is the patriarchal (and class) privilege that gives these men a leave pass from having to care. Perhaps a bit of a perfect storm...which is kind of what I was trying to point to. Certain things have happened in recent history that have elevated particular men ill-suited to running the world on behalf of other humans to these positions of immense power
A perfect storm is right. Thanks, Sarah.
The screenshot of the post from Mark Ruffalo - wow. Also, the irony of posting it on Elon's platform.
And Americans vote for all this because... they let themselves get dragged into culture war crap? Or they believed that billionaires would help them with the cost of eggs? They wanted to save a trillion dollars from withdrawing from the Paris agreement and thought that money would come back to them somehow and that a worsening climate crisis won't cost them much more than that? It's unfathomable. We have an election coming up here soon, how do we avoid a Trump copycat (Dutton) getting into power here?
So much irony abounds a the moment, Racheal! Another irony - Trump came to power bleating about the price of eggs...and now bird flu is sweeping the country and egg prices have gone through the roof. Mostly you can't buy them because chickens have been killed wholesale. At the same time, the agencies that manage pandemics are being stripped.
Re Dutton - I implore everyone to talk calmly about what Dutton is doing and the parallels with Trump's policies... not time to be meek at barbecues!
Thanks for plonking it all on the table Sarah. There has never been a more important time to NOT mince words!
I was lucky enough to have gone to a Gross National Happiness event at Small Giants this week, and Berry said something that I have tried to pull to the front of my brain since (everytime the next unbelieveable thing becomes reality) - we need to remember and lead with what we are for, not what we are against.
I'm trying.
It can be hard to even remember what we are "for" when we are so distracted. We have to resist the chaos!
I’ve run out of swear words - I’m struggling but, yeah…I hope you have a lovely day xx
It is interesting, ‘this particular demographic within the neurodiverse community’ living in their mother’s basements… They were safe there, could do little harm, hated on their mothers because that was both their safe person and a reminder of their own deep failures.
What a turn around for them now to have all the power and money. Still find empathy a challenge, are disconnected from the world around them, they are prone to creating their own fantasy world in their basements. And if left unchecked they have horrible disdain for their mothers and other women.
I reckon drag all kids out into nature, especially these kids, talk about glimmers, get them connected. It’s the only thing that works, reconnection and love.
The hatred of women is very real, I agree. I mean Zuckerberg built his empire on it. Interestingly, bullies and kids with behavioural issues in South Korea are bused out to nature camps as a first course of action, before being put on Ritalin etc. I write about this in my last book.
Interesting article by George Monbiot in the Guardian just now. I may be out of the loop news-wise, but this is the most main-stream coverage of collapse I’ve seen.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/18/donald-trump-global-collapse-wildfires-pandemic-financial-crisis
A good explainer of how last stages of collapse go...thanks for alerting me. I noted George has been "liking" a few of my collapse posts on IG
If we follow the money (and the telephone calls to Russian oligarchs), his intent seems mostly to be to destroy the US. Maybe in the pursuit of rebuilding it under techno-feudalism.
Yes, and supporting the Nazi party in Germany?!
Creating chaos is definitely the tactic here - to distract us. And tearing things down. Kara Swisher talks about how the tech bros operate to this idea - not improving or fixing, but tearing down...almost a dopamine rush thing.
They definitely want to build their little techno city states. Maybe they spent too much time playing The Sims?
They also have a bunch of family baggage, which they seem to embrace. https://www.ft.com/content/cfbfa1e8-d8f8-42b9-b74c-dae6cc6185a0
I dont' subscribe to FT, but I think I get the gist. The South Africa connect seems to be telling.