Thank you so much for sharing my work Sarah!!!! And what an introduction, you make me sound so interesting! ☺️ My husband and I don't actually *live* out of our van, but we do use it to travel quite a bit (and often camp in it on the weekends!) Hopefully we'll be traveling out your way soon!!!!!
Thank you for your lovely work, it's such an honor to appear here!
I love this post, as I loved the Barbie movie. To me, it’s not about women versus men or women are better than men. It’s about our estrangement, as a society, from a sense of the deeply feminine. One of the best images of the Era’s tour is dads wearing Swiftie t-shirts and driving their daughters, and sons, miles to stand in a stadium car park and be in the Swiftie vibe. They didn’t even have tickets! But they were talking about what Taylor era they represented and their fav T-Swift songs. Brilliant!
I have so many issues with the Barbie movie, how are mountains of plastic and glitter empowering? How is this painted, sterilised, hairless, un-wild version of womanhood empowering? How is portraying women constantly wearing full masks of environmentally damaging, carcinogenic make-up products empowering? How is a surgically altered, bleached , white female lead empowering? How can we give our money to support this reduced view of what being a women means? This money could be used so much better elsewhere. What so hideous about showing a women in her natural state? Where is middle age in this movie? The words and the physical reality of this movie completely collide. Newsflash- The revolution will not be sponsored by Mattel - with their corporate vested interests and it will probably be in earth friendly dyes, not hot pink. What’s good for women has to be good for the planet too. We don’t get a special pass or by feeling ‘preety’. What we consume matters, what we promote and the products we use matter. I would like to see a movie of wild women in their natural state, women who run with wolves, women without manicures and chemicals, without the pressure to be constantly made-up and ‘pretty’. A movie where we can get past our exterior to lead full and meaningful lives of input at any age, that’s a movie I’d want to see. So tired of having a surgically altered, bland sterilised version of womanhood constantly forced upon us in this society and fed to us as something to aspire to. Yep this movie is completely plastic.
I think there are movies like that, no? Nomadland comes to mind!
You have some good points on materialism and consumerism, and consumption in general. I do want to think that through in future essays! Here however, I just loved how they imagined life in Barbieland (a world of all women) and how that compared to life in Herland (another world of all women!), and I thought this a really fun piece of art!
Hi Elle, I respect your opinion and I have friends who loved the Barbie movie as well. I enjoyed Nomadland but it never marketed so relentlessly to young girls as a feminist movie for the ages.They are two different phenomenon. I don’t think this movie was empowering to women as it claimed. I think rampant capitalism and consumerism is the same no matter who is dealing it, even if they are re-branding it as feminism and ‘empowerment’.. Herdland sounds great. Barbieland to me was a nightmare. I would rather put my hands in the earth and watch things grow and live than be straightjacketed into that plastic dystopia. I also think little girls will see what’s on screen and it will only reinforce crippling beauty standards also ideas of status, wealth, class and privilege. Not everyone can maintain that facade and maintaining it comes at a cost to the environment and our contribution to society. It’s also an unequal standard of presentation that the one men are expected to uphold. It makes us economically poorer and unable to win in a system that privileges fresh meat or youth. Everyone must age.
Yes, I can understand that perspective. The movie itself even makes fun of that, with the young girl calling Barbie a model of rampant consumerism and "sexualized capitalism." But I think something can be both that, and empowering.
As a little girl, I never liked playing with baby dolls because I didn't think being a mom sounded like fun, but I LOVED Barbie, it was my favorite toy! And I think it's strange that we think of this girl toy as an example of consumerism and capitalism when we hardly call out boy plastic toys. Why aren't all those cars and trucks "bad" the way Barbie is? Why didn't we have the same conversation when the Cars movie came out? Or the Lego Movie? Sure, there were some writers who penned pieces about that, but it wasn't a mainstream criticism, people just enjoyed those movies. For whatever reason, Barbie carries so much more weight.
And I do think there is a sense of "girlness" that is innate. You can see that in the little girls wearing princess dresses. I have a niece that has never seen a single Disney movie, and yet she has all the princess dresses because she likes to feel "fancy." They don't need to be "marketed to" to want to dress that way. They just love it! They come over to my house and put on my earrings and play with my lipstick and walk around my house in high heels. They don't watch TV or have access to screen time, and yet that is something they just love.
And that girlness doesn't really exist elsewhere apart from when we have a movie like this come out, or a Taylor Swift concert to attend to. There might be things that are empowering to women, but they aren't very feminine or fun??
Anyway, I went on a long tangent there because I personally felt empowered and inspired and celebrated by that movie, but I can also understand why others might not. So certainly all of these viewpoints are valid. I just love that it's created a spark so we can have these kinds of conversations with each other in the first place!! Thanks for thinking about this with me!!!!!
I agree with your point about movies marketed at boys, we do just accept them and should be casting an equal sceptic eye. They are also full of plastic and worrying messages however they don’t claim to promote masculinism or empower boys. They just market themselves as entertainment. I’m disappointed because the Barbie movie was marketed relentlessly to me as being about so much more with all types of online marketing and analysis hyping it up. To me it fails in all those claims. The actions and physical reality of this movie are the things kids will notice and remember, not the words no matter how self-knowing they claim to be. The old adage about actions speaking louder than words is true. The unrealistic presentation of the main character and her cohorts is a crushing expectation.
I am embarrassed to say I actually took my nieces to see this movie, because I fell for the advertising. Before we went to see the movie we had spent the day playing soccer, running, chasing, having the time of our lives. I treasure the time I spend with them where we can forget about what we look like and all the societal pressures and expectations to be a certain way. For all of us there is so much joy in throwing off that weight and just playing. We fart, we burp, roll around jump, run and scream, get dirty. We have the wind in our hair and the sun on our faces. It’s the best. Looking pretty, made-up and perfect reminds me of Victorian times, it’s for dolls not for little girls. Each to their own idea of fun and empowerment but for me dressing and acting at being a doll is not freedom and it’s not empowering, it’s stifling.
I think the direction the movie depicts is a worrying one with so many aspiring to be perfect like their Instagram heroes, going under the knife to live up to these false ideals. There is already societies where people are expected to have surgery to maintain their looks and to gain job opportunities. Women already face age discrimination as they become invisible with middle age (also invisible in the movie). While we strive to make ourselves look perfect and pretty the planet is in trouble. More focus on having the perfect self image is not the answer. I wish this was a movie to inspire girls to become planet crusaders but it’s definitely not that movie.
I appreciate your points and agree with many of them especially about being harder on women and girls than men. That is unfair and I believe misogyny is baked into our culture. We are raised in it and shaming women is part of that. Shame for our bodies and everything that comes out of them, I could go on and on about how shame is baked in. A movie about plastic women does not celebrate real women, it celebrates plastic. Our perceptions of the movie and it’s impact upon each of us is vastly different. I do celebrate and respect that difference. It’s vital. Thank-you also for the discussion and allowing me to vent 🙂
I would also say the ‘self care’ and ‘pampering’ involved to look constantly ‘pretty’ as the movie and so much advertising depicts is another consumerist ploy. I don’t know anyone who feels joyous at having their roots covered or nails done. It is yet another chore and economic burden/disadvantage foisted upon women to avoid discrimination based upon their appearance. Not to mention the environmental impact of all these products. Joy to me is being allowed to forget about image, to forget shame and just being able to ‘be’ in our own skin and for that to be good enough.
There is money to be made from ‘feminism’ and there are products to be sold. Pop-music knows it, Mattel knows it. This movie is a cynical ploy aimed at capturing a young and impressionable market. In the same way as how cigarettes were marketed at youth rebellion, Mattel is trying to cask in on ‘feminism’, ‘empowerment’ and being ‘woke’.
Looking ‘pretty’ is a consumerist/marketing ploy to re-direct and distract our focus while rainforests burn. Trying to look this way is an un-winnable game where we invest more and more of ourselves and the planet’s resources only to have the stone roll back down the hill again. We can hoist it back onto our backs and try again to live up to this impossible plastic ideal. However we and the planet can only lose in this impossible game stacked against us.
Thanks Sarah, big fan! I read your post and so agree about the Roundtable, the plot in that movie is something only a group could come up with-It’s all over the shop. Also agree about the plastics. This movie made me so angry and despair for the future of feminism and the planet. i also felt ‘played’. I think humanity is in big trouble if we think this movie is the answer.. thank you for letting me rant on here. I feel like the slick advertising machine that has marketed this movie so well eats up any online criticism of it and I wanted to voice an opposing view. People were actually dancing in the cinema When I saw it in and I as you also express felt violated by the movie. Thank you for all that you do and I hope your writing and travels in France are going well. Look forward to the next book 🙂
Is this seriously the future of feminism? Where the rich don’t have to sag or age and the economically disadvantaged in their natural state scuttle away in the shadows, unable to afford the nips, tucks and ‘pampering’.’ Femism-TM ‘ bought to you by sweatshop workers, slave labour and environmentally degrading products and practices. This is not utopia it’s dystopia.
The women in Herland age. In fact, the men are disappointed when they arrive and find a bunch of middle-aged women, and not the harem of young maidens they were anticipating (😬). And the women of Herland make all of their own things, have a circular economy with no waste, and raise no meat because it took up too much land. They even replanted their forest so that every tree is fruit bearing. I wonder if you would love Herland's utopia moreso than the Barbie one?
One can only pray for the day where women are automatically accepted in leadership roles. Still too much toxic masculinity in this world. Cherchez la femme.
Hopefully no one will be automatically accepted into leadership roles. Certainly hasn't been my experience as a man. It should be based on merit: a person's capacity to be a great leader, regardless of gender or race etc..
if the playing field is fair and everyone's starting position is similar. This is the issue with "merit"...it assumes we all had the same access to the base conditions to be able to demonstrate our merit.
How is the playing field unfair? How is there not the same access to the base conditions to demonstrate merit? And what's the definition of base conditions? As an example, you Sarah are a very successful woman. What barriers have you experienced that men don't?
In Australia, we have laws to protect against things like discrimination, so from a.legql standpoint we have a society which for the most part, enables each person equal opportunity.
I think there's also an assumption here that one needs to have access to some set of base conditions in order to lead a fulfilling and successful life, and yet many successful people grew up in conditions that were extremely harsh and unjust.
Oh Matt, where to start. OK, so when I was starting my career I was felt up, intimidated etc ...you couldn't complain or make use of any kind of legislation you speak of because you simply would not progress in your job if you did. This was normal for most women I knew and it took up a lot of energy, held you back from trying for new opportunities etc. There are a gazillion other examples I could cite, right down to the way office buildings are AC'd for men's bodies and attire and don't have enough toilet space for women. If we talk sport, women don't have the same basic changing facilities. We haven't even touched on the biases that prevent women from getting ahead in the same way.
I'm sorry to hear that Sarah. I'd in no way excuse innapropriate behaviour, and yet there are laws against sexual harrassment, and laws against unfair dismissal. Interestingly despite those experiences, you've become an extraordinarily successful and inspiring person.
Portraying the world (ie in Australia in 2023) as though it's skewed in the favour of men, is finding selective evidence in my view.
You can find evidence to the contrary. For example, during small business month, there are many workshops and events just for women, like marketing workshops, women in business events etc. Do you know how many there are for men? Zero. And if there was an event just for men? That'd be discriminatory. Somehow as a man, you're supposed to already know everything. I'm not complaining about it, just pointing out there is evidence to support the contrary.
I believe we can live our life in victimhood, where there will always be a victim, a perpetrator and a rescuer, or we can choose empowerment. Being genuinely victimised doesn't mean that we need to live life as a victim. I've had many experiences that have been unjust, and it takes courage to do something in those situations (sometimes I have, sometimes I haven't) that may mean losing friendships, or a career etc.
I just don't see the value in pitting men against women, and I don't think it's at all true that men are in charge, and women are not.
I was reading this description of Herland and was like “yes! I want to live there!” And it reminded me of a talk at Byron Writers Festival last weekend on women in leadership. It was organised by WELA (women’s environmental leadership Australia) which was created by the matriarchs of the Australian environmental movement to get more women leading from their power in environment, business, politics etc -- so maybe we can create Herland after all! Worth checking out WELA for anyone on here in Australia ☺️
I also felt that same sense of safety and belonging as the swift fans when I went to a Matilda’s pre-world cup friendly match. The crowd was just my female football family: mums, daughters, friends, wives. Men were outnumbered and it was the most serene and supportive crowd I’ve ever been a part of. The actual World Cup games were different with more men coming for a look at the women’s game (but still way less rum-filled-bravado as an NRL game). I just want more and am so here for the tide turning. I feel like Barbie (along with climate inaction) has collectively woken us up ✨
Hi all...thanks Elle, and to you Sarah for keeping this conversation going. I actually added my two cents worth on this topic back on your original ‘Barbie and Campervan’ thread once I’d seen the movie.
Essentially, my comments echo those of Caroline’s in this thread.
Sometimes it’s so hard for me to remove my cynical lens when it comes to analysing so many aspects of our Western culture and society. I just feel so disillusioned and overwhelmed when I consider how impossible it feels to counteract the superpower that is capitalism (not to mention entrenched gender stereotypes and warped notions of beauty etc). But I know it’s important to keep having conversations that aim to challenge the status quo...even if we’re ultimately quite powerless to change it much eh?🙈🤷🏻♀️ (I know this type of thinking isn’t going to help me/us btw but it’s just how I feel!).
I agree with you that we need to "counteract the superpower that is capitalism," and that is a lot of what I explore in my essays. But I also think we don't have to look at the world cynically while we work on that. My personal thoughts are that hope gives us so much more power than despair. And if we believe we can regulate and fix the problems with capitalism, than we will!! (We already have quite a bit since 100 years ago!) And we might as well enjoy everything life has to offer while we work on making it better!
(But then, you're talking to a severe optimist here 😆)
Thanks Elle...yeah I agree with all your sentiments. I’m glad you’re a “severe optimist”...I would like to be more optimistic - but I find myself tending towards being more of a realist, probably with a hint of pessimism (which is hard to overcome given us humans are ‘wired’ this way to ensure our continued survival!). “Hope” is an interesting concept that some of us discussed in another one of Sarah’s threads here. I think there’s a place for it as long as it’s coupled with affirmative action etc, and not just a complacent belief that “everything will be okay”...which I know doesn’t apply to you! :)
Great post Elle, thanks for sharing Sarah! Really enjoying the comment thread too. It all makes me think of ‘Amazon Acres’ the women only community in northern NSW setup in the 1970’s where the motto was ‘no men, no meat, no machines.’ In the past I’ve hosted drinks in my garden with girlfriends (in Sydney) espousing the same motto, but lately I’ve been thinking I need to invite the men too....
Loved your post Elle and loving all the great comments too!
My takeaway is that the world is far from perfect but there is hope.
I must agree with Caroline Iero that the plastic, glitter-laden Barbie-land was pretty confronting. However what moved me was the power of the feminine energy that brought the Barbies together to push back again the patriarchy of Kendom.
Yes, the world is far from perfect but there's hope! There are still challenges (we should really figure out plastic), but it's also worth celebrating our wins (more than 100 countries already have a full or partial ban on single-use plastic bags and that is poised to continue)!
Thank you for this great discussion. I have not read Herland, but have just ordered it - thank you for the recommendation.
I did not like the Barbie movie (except for the actors, clothes and set). I felt it was either one situation (all women) or another (all men). Since Barbieland had both men and women they need to co-exist, as you say Allen had the right idea. Herland works presumably because there were no men - what happened to the boy babies?
Though the Barbie movie shows powerful women, I think it sent the wrong message to both young girls and young boys, about men. And the final message that being able to reproduce is the dream, also sat badly with me.
I personally don’t think an all male or all female society works. Having attended an all girls boarding school, I can tell you that life with only girls is not sweet.
Oh I absolutely agree, it's all about the collaboration together. I think the point of overstating girl culture, is that we could stand to bring some of it into the default culture which is largely boy culture. It's not that we need one or the other, but we need it to be more of both!
(In Herland, boy babies aren't born—the women have evolved to reproduce asexually and produce only girl babies!)
Of course merit should be a guiding factor but no one is talking about a biased selection process. You have to admit though that a lot of work is still needed to level the playing field.
Thank you so much for sharing my work Sarah!!!! And what an introduction, you make me sound so interesting! ☺️ My husband and I don't actually *live* out of our van, but we do use it to travel quite a bit (and often camp in it on the weekends!) Hopefully we'll be traveling out your way soon!!!!!
Thank you for your lovely work, it's such an honor to appear here!
Thank you for agreeing to be a guest author!
I love this post, as I loved the Barbie movie. To me, it’s not about women versus men or women are better than men. It’s about our estrangement, as a society, from a sense of the deeply feminine. One of the best images of the Era’s tour is dads wearing Swiftie t-shirts and driving their daughters, and sons, miles to stand in a stadium car park and be in the Swiftie vibe. They didn’t even have tickets! But they were talking about what Taylor era they represented and their fav T-Swift songs. Brilliant!
YES!!!!! An estrangement from the feminine. I love that Swiftie dads are embracing it!!!
That image is a great one!!
I have so many issues with the Barbie movie, how are mountains of plastic and glitter empowering? How is this painted, sterilised, hairless, un-wild version of womanhood empowering? How is portraying women constantly wearing full masks of environmentally damaging, carcinogenic make-up products empowering? How is a surgically altered, bleached , white female lead empowering? How can we give our money to support this reduced view of what being a women means? This money could be used so much better elsewhere. What so hideous about showing a women in her natural state? Where is middle age in this movie? The words and the physical reality of this movie completely collide. Newsflash- The revolution will not be sponsored by Mattel - with their corporate vested interests and it will probably be in earth friendly dyes, not hot pink. What’s good for women has to be good for the planet too. We don’t get a special pass or by feeling ‘preety’. What we consume matters, what we promote and the products we use matter. I would like to see a movie of wild women in their natural state, women who run with wolves, women without manicures and chemicals, without the pressure to be constantly made-up and ‘pretty’. A movie where we can get past our exterior to lead full and meaningful lives of input at any age, that’s a movie I’d want to see. So tired of having a surgically altered, bland sterilised version of womanhood constantly forced upon us in this society and fed to us as something to aspire to. Yep this movie is completely plastic.
I think there are movies like that, no? Nomadland comes to mind!
You have some good points on materialism and consumerism, and consumption in general. I do want to think that through in future essays! Here however, I just loved how they imagined life in Barbieland (a world of all women) and how that compared to life in Herland (another world of all women!), and I thought this a really fun piece of art!
Hi Elle, I respect your opinion and I have friends who loved the Barbie movie as well. I enjoyed Nomadland but it never marketed so relentlessly to young girls as a feminist movie for the ages.They are two different phenomenon. I don’t think this movie was empowering to women as it claimed. I think rampant capitalism and consumerism is the same no matter who is dealing it, even if they are re-branding it as feminism and ‘empowerment’.. Herdland sounds great. Barbieland to me was a nightmare. I would rather put my hands in the earth and watch things grow and live than be straightjacketed into that plastic dystopia. I also think little girls will see what’s on screen and it will only reinforce crippling beauty standards also ideas of status, wealth, class and privilege. Not everyone can maintain that facade and maintaining it comes at a cost to the environment and our contribution to society. It’s also an unequal standard of presentation that the one men are expected to uphold. It makes us economically poorer and unable to win in a system that privileges fresh meat or youth. Everyone must age.
Yes, I can understand that perspective. The movie itself even makes fun of that, with the young girl calling Barbie a model of rampant consumerism and "sexualized capitalism." But I think something can be both that, and empowering.
As a little girl, I never liked playing with baby dolls because I didn't think being a mom sounded like fun, but I LOVED Barbie, it was my favorite toy! And I think it's strange that we think of this girl toy as an example of consumerism and capitalism when we hardly call out boy plastic toys. Why aren't all those cars and trucks "bad" the way Barbie is? Why didn't we have the same conversation when the Cars movie came out? Or the Lego Movie? Sure, there were some writers who penned pieces about that, but it wasn't a mainstream criticism, people just enjoyed those movies. For whatever reason, Barbie carries so much more weight.
And I do think there is a sense of "girlness" that is innate. You can see that in the little girls wearing princess dresses. I have a niece that has never seen a single Disney movie, and yet she has all the princess dresses because she likes to feel "fancy." They don't need to be "marketed to" to want to dress that way. They just love it! They come over to my house and put on my earrings and play with my lipstick and walk around my house in high heels. They don't watch TV or have access to screen time, and yet that is something they just love.
And that girlness doesn't really exist elsewhere apart from when we have a movie like this come out, or a Taylor Swift concert to attend to. There might be things that are empowering to women, but they aren't very feminine or fun??
Anyway, I went on a long tangent there because I personally felt empowered and inspired and celebrated by that movie, but I can also understand why others might not. So certainly all of these viewpoints are valid. I just love that it's created a spark so we can have these kinds of conversations with each other in the first place!! Thanks for thinking about this with me!!!!!
Hi Elle,
I agree with your point about movies marketed at boys, we do just accept them and should be casting an equal sceptic eye. They are also full of plastic and worrying messages however they don’t claim to promote masculinism or empower boys. They just market themselves as entertainment. I’m disappointed because the Barbie movie was marketed relentlessly to me as being about so much more with all types of online marketing and analysis hyping it up. To me it fails in all those claims. The actions and physical reality of this movie are the things kids will notice and remember, not the words no matter how self-knowing they claim to be. The old adage about actions speaking louder than words is true. The unrealistic presentation of the main character and her cohorts is a crushing expectation.
I am embarrassed to say I actually took my nieces to see this movie, because I fell for the advertising. Before we went to see the movie we had spent the day playing soccer, running, chasing, having the time of our lives. I treasure the time I spend with them where we can forget about what we look like and all the societal pressures and expectations to be a certain way. For all of us there is so much joy in throwing off that weight and just playing. We fart, we burp, roll around jump, run and scream, get dirty. We have the wind in our hair and the sun on our faces. It’s the best. Looking pretty, made-up and perfect reminds me of Victorian times, it’s for dolls not for little girls. Each to their own idea of fun and empowerment but for me dressing and acting at being a doll is not freedom and it’s not empowering, it’s stifling.
I think the direction the movie depicts is a worrying one with so many aspiring to be perfect like their Instagram heroes, going under the knife to live up to these false ideals. There is already societies where people are expected to have surgery to maintain their looks and to gain job opportunities. Women already face age discrimination as they become invisible with middle age (also invisible in the movie). While we strive to make ourselves look perfect and pretty the planet is in trouble. More focus on having the perfect self image is not the answer. I wish this was a movie to inspire girls to become planet crusaders but it’s definitely not that movie.
I appreciate your points and agree with many of them especially about being harder on women and girls than men. That is unfair and I believe misogyny is baked into our culture. We are raised in it and shaming women is part of that. Shame for our bodies and everything that comes out of them, I could go on and on about how shame is baked in. A movie about plastic women does not celebrate real women, it celebrates plastic. Our perceptions of the movie and it’s impact upon each of us is vastly different. I do celebrate and respect that difference. It’s vital. Thank-you also for the discussion and allowing me to vent 🙂
I would also say the ‘self care’ and ‘pampering’ involved to look constantly ‘pretty’ as the movie and so much advertising depicts is another consumerist ploy. I don’t know anyone who feels joyous at having their roots covered or nails done. It is yet another chore and economic burden/disadvantage foisted upon women to avoid discrimination based upon their appearance. Not to mention the environmental impact of all these products. Joy to me is being allowed to forget about image, to forget shame and just being able to ‘be’ in our own skin and for that to be good enough.
There is money to be made from ‘feminism’ and there are products to be sold. Pop-music knows it, Mattel knows it. This movie is a cynical ploy aimed at capturing a young and impressionable market. In the same way as how cigarettes were marketed at youth rebellion, Mattel is trying to cask in on ‘feminism’, ‘empowerment’ and being ‘woke’.
Looking ‘pretty’ is a consumerist/marketing ploy to re-direct and distract our focus while rainforests burn. Trying to look this way is an un-winnable game where we invest more and more of ourselves and the planet’s resources only to have the stone roll back down the hill again. We can hoist it back onto our backs and try again to live up to this impossible plastic ideal. However we and the planet can only lose in this impossible game stacked against us.
I agree re the capitalist messaging...did you read my post on the movie?
Thanks Sarah, big fan! I read your post and so agree about the Roundtable, the plot in that movie is something only a group could come up with-It’s all over the shop. Also agree about the plastics. This movie made me so angry and despair for the future of feminism and the planet. i also felt ‘played’. I think humanity is in big trouble if we think this movie is the answer.. thank you for letting me rant on here. I feel like the slick advertising machine that has marketed this movie so well eats up any online criticism of it and I wanted to voice an opposing view. People were actually dancing in the cinema When I saw it in and I as you also express felt violated by the movie. Thank you for all that you do and I hope your writing and travels in France are going well. Look forward to the next book 🙂
Is this seriously the future of feminism? Where the rich don’t have to sag or age and the economically disadvantaged in their natural state scuttle away in the shadows, unable to afford the nips, tucks and ‘pampering’.’ Femism-TM ‘ bought to you by sweatshop workers, slave labour and environmentally degrading products and practices. This is not utopia it’s dystopia.
The women in Herland age. In fact, the men are disappointed when they arrive and find a bunch of middle-aged women, and not the harem of young maidens they were anticipating (😬). And the women of Herland make all of their own things, have a circular economy with no waste, and raise no meat because it took up too much land. They even replanted their forest so that every tree is fruit bearing. I wonder if you would love Herland's utopia moreso than the Barbie one?
Love it ! 🙂
One can only pray for the day where women are automatically accepted in leadership roles. Still too much toxic masculinity in this world. Cherchez la femme.
Hopefully no one will be automatically accepted into leadership roles. Certainly hasn't been my experience as a man. It should be based on merit: a person's capacity to be a great leader, regardless of gender or race etc..
A meritocracy is fair.
if the playing field is fair and everyone's starting position is similar. This is the issue with "merit"...it assumes we all had the same access to the base conditions to be able to demonstrate our merit.
How is the playing field unfair? How is there not the same access to the base conditions to demonstrate merit? And what's the definition of base conditions? As an example, you Sarah are a very successful woman. What barriers have you experienced that men don't?
In Australia, we have laws to protect against things like discrimination, so from a.legql standpoint we have a society which for the most part, enables each person equal opportunity.
I think there's also an assumption here that one needs to have access to some set of base conditions in order to lead a fulfilling and successful life, and yet many successful people grew up in conditions that were extremely harsh and unjust.
Oh Matt, where to start. OK, so when I was starting my career I was felt up, intimidated etc ...you couldn't complain or make use of any kind of legislation you speak of because you simply would not progress in your job if you did. This was normal for most women I knew and it took up a lot of energy, held you back from trying for new opportunities etc. There are a gazillion other examples I could cite, right down to the way office buildings are AC'd for men's bodies and attire and don't have enough toilet space for women. If we talk sport, women don't have the same basic changing facilities. We haven't even touched on the biases that prevent women from getting ahead in the same way.
I'm sorry to hear that Sarah. I'd in no way excuse innapropriate behaviour, and yet there are laws against sexual harrassment, and laws against unfair dismissal. Interestingly despite those experiences, you've become an extraordinarily successful and inspiring person.
Portraying the world (ie in Australia in 2023) as though it's skewed in the favour of men, is finding selective evidence in my view.
You can find evidence to the contrary. For example, during small business month, there are many workshops and events just for women, like marketing workshops, women in business events etc. Do you know how many there are for men? Zero. And if there was an event just for men? That'd be discriminatory. Somehow as a man, you're supposed to already know everything. I'm not complaining about it, just pointing out there is evidence to support the contrary.
I believe we can live our life in victimhood, where there will always be a victim, a perpetrator and a rescuer, or we can choose empowerment. Being genuinely victimised doesn't mean that we need to live life as a victim. I've had many experiences that have been unjust, and it takes courage to do something in those situations (sometimes I have, sometimes I haven't) that may mean losing friendships, or a career etc.
I just don't see the value in pitting men against women, and I don't think it's at all true that men are in charge, and women are not.
I was reading this description of Herland and was like “yes! I want to live there!” And it reminded me of a talk at Byron Writers Festival last weekend on women in leadership. It was organised by WELA (women’s environmental leadership Australia) which was created by the matriarchs of the Australian environmental movement to get more women leading from their power in environment, business, politics etc -- so maybe we can create Herland after all! Worth checking out WELA for anyone on here in Australia ☺️
i shall!
I do think women would rule the world differently, and better!
I hadn’t heard of Charlotte Perkins Gilman but am off to download her books!
Haven’t seen Barbie yet but will. Thanks for sharing another great piece💕
Her books are fascinating. I hope you love them as I have!
I. Loved. It.
I also felt that same sense of safety and belonging as the swift fans when I went to a Matilda’s pre-world cup friendly match. The crowd was just my female football family: mums, daughters, friends, wives. Men were outnumbered and it was the most serene and supportive crowd I’ve ever been a part of. The actual World Cup games were different with more men coming for a look at the women’s game (but still way less rum-filled-bravado as an NRL game). I just want more and am so here for the tide turning. I feel like Barbie (along with climate inaction) has collectively woken us up ✨
Oh that's so cool! What a fun experience!
Love this!
Thank you!
Hi all...thanks Elle, and to you Sarah for keeping this conversation going. I actually added my two cents worth on this topic back on your original ‘Barbie and Campervan’ thread once I’d seen the movie.
Essentially, my comments echo those of Caroline’s in this thread.
Sometimes it’s so hard for me to remove my cynical lens when it comes to analysing so many aspects of our Western culture and society. I just feel so disillusioned and overwhelmed when I consider how impossible it feels to counteract the superpower that is capitalism (not to mention entrenched gender stereotypes and warped notions of beauty etc). But I know it’s important to keep having conversations that aim to challenge the status quo...even if we’re ultimately quite powerless to change it much eh?🙈🤷🏻♀️ (I know this type of thinking isn’t going to help me/us btw but it’s just how I feel!).
Much kindness, Claire 😌
I agree with you that we need to "counteract the superpower that is capitalism," and that is a lot of what I explore in my essays. But I also think we don't have to look at the world cynically while we work on that. My personal thoughts are that hope gives us so much more power than despair. And if we believe we can regulate and fix the problems with capitalism, than we will!! (We already have quite a bit since 100 years ago!) And we might as well enjoy everything life has to offer while we work on making it better!
(But then, you're talking to a severe optimist here 😆)
Thanks Elle...yeah I agree with all your sentiments. I’m glad you’re a “severe optimist”...I would like to be more optimistic - but I find myself tending towards being more of a realist, probably with a hint of pessimism (which is hard to overcome given us humans are ‘wired’ this way to ensure our continued survival!). “Hope” is an interesting concept that some of us discussed in another one of Sarah’s threads here. I think there’s a place for it as long as it’s coupled with affirmative action etc, and not just a complacent belief that “everything will be okay”...which I know doesn’t apply to you! :)
This was an incredible post. I enjoyed it immensely!
Thank you so much!
Great post Elle, thanks for sharing Sarah! Really enjoying the comment thread too. It all makes me think of ‘Amazon Acres’ the women only community in northern NSW setup in the 1970’s where the motto was ‘no men, no meat, no machines.’ In the past I’ve hosted drinks in my garden with girlfriends (in Sydney) espousing the same motto, but lately I’ve been thinking I need to invite the men too....
https://www.sbs.com.au/voices/article/my-life-with-no-men-no-meat-no-machines/e5xxiorv8
In the age of rapid AI development the ‘no machines’ part of the motto seems quite the luxury!
Whoa, I'd never heard of that. Fascinating!!!!!!
PS and of course thank you Sarah for creating this conversation - love your feminine energy always x
Loved your post Elle and loving all the great comments too!
My takeaway is that the world is far from perfect but there is hope.
I must agree with Caroline Iero that the plastic, glitter-laden Barbie-land was pretty confronting. However what moved me was the power of the feminine energy that brought the Barbies together to push back again the patriarchy of Kendom.
And I loved Allen too!
Yes, the world is far from perfect but there's hope! There are still challenges (we should really figure out plastic), but it's also worth celebrating our wins (more than 100 countries already have a full or partial ban on single-use plastic bags and that is poised to continue)!
Thank you for this great discussion. I have not read Herland, but have just ordered it - thank you for the recommendation.
I did not like the Barbie movie (except for the actors, clothes and set). I felt it was either one situation (all women) or another (all men). Since Barbieland had both men and women they need to co-exist, as you say Allen had the right idea. Herland works presumably because there were no men - what happened to the boy babies?
Though the Barbie movie shows powerful women, I think it sent the wrong message to both young girls and young boys, about men. And the final message that being able to reproduce is the dream, also sat badly with me.
I personally don’t think an all male or all female society works. Having attended an all girls boarding school, I can tell you that life with only girls is not sweet.
Oh I absolutely agree, it's all about the collaboration together. I think the point of overstating girl culture, is that we could stand to bring some of it into the default culture which is largely boy culture. It's not that we need one or the other, but we need it to be more of both!
(In Herland, boy babies aren't born—the women have evolved to reproduce asexually and produce only girl babies!)
Of course merit should be a guiding factor but no one is talking about a biased selection process. You have to admit though that a lot of work is still needed to level the playing field.
There's a basic assumption that women are not in charge. Is that true and is that empowering?
Well I certainly think that boyness is the default culture and that it could use some more girlness.