Woke, anti or otherwise, as it is today, strikes me as a deftly deployed red herring. It plays into the hands of those governments that couldn't care less, who can sit back and watch with glee as we tear ourselves apart over words and ideas, so they never need worry about our actions.
Extending this further, and possibly too far, I sometimes wonder if the global news cycle is used in exactly the same way. There are so many horrendous things happening across the world. Humans have finite capacity and 24 hours in a day. Whilst we're busy being outraged by global news, and telling each other which side we should be on to be "good" in these global issues, we're not spending nearly as much time holding our governments to account on the finer detail of local policy.
It's the "someone always has a worse day somewhere" argument gone large. By that logic, in the western world, how politics and society treat people locally never becomes the priority, because there are bigger atrocities globally.
Very convenient if you're, say, the UK government at the moment, and for populists everywhere.
Yes a red herring. Your point about it being part of something bigger fits to the metacrisis/moloch thesis. And, you're right, our responsibility is to choose to step out of the spiral. No need to blame anyone, because there ain't anyone to blame and blaming, too, is a distraction.
I have surprisingly been going through similar interactions (although nowhere near as respectful as yours since my friends aren’t considered centrist) with my circle of friends. I have noticed a pattern with guy friends especially. Usually ones that were considered “intelligent” within their social groups. Once they reach late 30s, they started picking up Mark Manson book (usually because they felt related to the cover), adopted worldview that’s very “us vs. them”, very antagonistic towards the changes happening in the world, started using the term “left”.
These people are very disillusioned by the world themselves. It’s too chaotic. Too many perspectives to consider. Too many “sensitive” people that they have to be considerate to. It’s too much for them so they started viewing the world very differently and narrowly. A self defence mechanism of some sort. A way that let them not take “accountability” of their own actions.
And this is the trend I’m seeing up close. I have two guys who contacted me out of the blue (they do so sporadically over the years we’ve known each other) and I’m just appalled by their communications and change in their mindsets. Maybe not a change, since it probably was there from the beginning but just quieter.
I felt I needed to be vocal about my stance too. I’m glad I’m subscribed to you - it doesn’t feel so lonely in Bangkok.
Yes, "The Subtle Art of...." The sentiment seems to be the wrong understanding that the book will teach them to 'give less f*ck'. But in reality, the book attempts to get people to 'give a f*ck' where it matters. The people, the connection and the love. To become more humbled about life in general so the self can be 'more contained and grounded'.
I think part of the trend is that the surrounding people of some of these entitled people I've come across are becoming more aware and consciously drawing better boundaries - aka people are becoming less tolerable of bad behaviours.
Mark Manson came out with a Netflix show same title as his book last year too, so I would assume that his popularity picked up again. He definitely has interesting things to say that will benefit a lot of people. An honest perspective from someone who went through the feeling of being 'disillusioned' by the people, what success means, and how the world works in general (e.g. wealthy and popular people don't translate to being good people etc).
Mark has a well-balanced view generally but I guess the title of his book (although I agree with Steve that it's perfect in a way!) seems to resonate well with those who's already feeling sensitive towards the world - which in turn, are already reluctant to look inward.
Marks morphing into some sort of wise hobbit type guy. Maybe going a little bro, but I think he is a good influence, and easily accessible to young guys and girls 👌🏼
I get the feeling he has learnt a lot on his journey and is tapping into some honest conversation
I think the title of his book in some ways was perfect
It would have gotten heaps of angry people to read something which would have really re-empowered them
And not in a Tony Robbins or an Andrew Tate kind of pump it up style. More of a “okay, I got this” back to square one, chop wood , gather water, each day is its own victory. And the harvest will be sublime.
It is worth an email, especially around empowering guys and re establishing some shared values and guard rails
Busy pondering it myself , maybe we can chat about it in Paris 😁
I have found him super real. He ACTUALLY read my anxiety book on a plane and reached out with an endorsement when he landed. Out of the blue. And has taken my calls previously.
Thanks Chusana , Mark seems to me to be a dufus who player in some questionable games as a younger man. And then went to write a book about what he discovered. Pick up games, drinking, and one up man ship gets boring real quick. And leaves a gaping hole in your soul a mile wide. I was always put off the book because of its title , but a friend of mine told me to read it. As he knew I was a little lost on how to focus my time, energy and love.
Marks book strips away a lot for the bullshit in life. Aka woke wack-a-mole screaming parties. And indulging in judgement and blame to make your own shit smell better.
Take responsibility, understand yourself and get to understand those closest to you that matter.
Sounds like a good way to deal with all of those things that our woke phase brought to the surface 👌🏼
Yes, I got that sense too. And I'm glad that he penned down what he discovered and shared it with the world. It does strip away a lot of the bullshit and he does bring in a lot of the ancient philosophies that are still applicable to the modern life.
I'm smiling reading your comment because it's nice to see someone taking away the core points about what it means to live a good life. If it's not about relationships - what is life anyway?
Mark touched on this a lot too - toxic positivity - that I highly agree with. People, especially men, are taught, directly and indirectly, to suppress their emotions. There was a time in history that emotions were associated with the feminist movement against logic. Thank goodness we came a long way from that. Like Carl Jung said about emotions, "What you resist, persists". The deeper it's buried or 'forgotten' consciously, these emotions can continue to influence our behaviours and wellbeing in unseen ways.
So yeah... I feel like we're moving towards the "let's get in touch with ourselves more" era again - but this time, much more equipped with scientific knowledge especially in the neuroscience discipline.
I concur, and when I mean dufus, I mean dufus as in what all men are as they figure themselves out. Women have their own journey also , but men gain so much of their identity and social capital from doing , that they try on or are enticed by things or ways of things. Which is fine. But this journey needs to be based on some sound values, and guided in a way so that we do not try on the wrong things. Or enticed to the dark side when our journey trips us up.
It’s interesting that you’ve framed it specifically for men - as I’m experiencing this phenomenon up close when I moved to live closer to my family. I can see it in my own brother, guy friends and many male relatives. Society and surrounding women seem to have a way of propping up these men in ways that’s not genuine (oftentimes because it affects their “social face” too). And off we go, on this farce that, as time passes, comes down like a sand castle against the waves.
I tried opening up with many of these male figures in my life. But would be shot down along with the sentiment of “what would I know that they don’t”. But I think my stance really has been quite clear, especially in these past four years, that there’s a time for standing up for yourself and what you feel is right. To be able to critique the things you previously believed to be true. To have the awareness to spot toxic behaviours in your life (as well as in yourself!) and have the ability to deal with it in healthy ways.
Chusana , you used the word sensitive to describe how the men are behaving. There is something to this. And may help to reduce the distress for those around them and you.
Dudes feel things, they are just not taught how to read the emotional language that their body gives them. They need to be held accountable, but we have to understand the animal that we are dealing with.
I am not dismissing poor behaviour, but they are sensitive to the discomfort that the cognitive and emotional load that the woke wave brought to us all. And they are not coping very well.
As Sarah mentioned , it came about during the discoveries of systemic and unconscious racism towards people of cool different shades 😎.
And set off a steam roller through society, all the way to our own front doors where it opened up the can of worms with how we behave towards each other. Within couples, families and communities.
Essential work
But like when your boss or partner asks you “do you have a minute” you pulse quickens and your mind does a quick summary of your Dickhead/Jesus behaviour ratio 😝.
It’s like some of us boarded two different trains
One crazy train to Jazz hands , where we dug up all of dead bodies and rattled the skeletons in the closests along the way
The other went right, on a journey to Alex Jones’ front door, with numerous stops along the way visiting narcissistic doctors, psychs and politicians along the way.
My father lost two of his brothers to the second crazy train , and we were talking the other day trying to figure out how to address the situation and open up dialogue. In order to have some normal sort of conversation and connection.
Unfortunately we did not crack the answer
But we are on our way
It involves some “I” language and non violent communication
Men’s circles utilise I language in order to minimise threat to others and also to insist on accountability and reflection on how “I” feel.
Rather than group think with “us guys”, or projection with “those” people , or “the left” .
Brings men back inside and asks them what the F do they actually feel? That alone is not the answer but it is a start.
I think it maybe able to be initiated by us, and modelled by us.
And it needs a clear declaration that the guy in question is important to you , that you want a good relationship with them. Guys like a clear linear, I am here, this is where I want to go. With you. This will engage them.
And maybe ask them to be able to just sit and listen to you , that you don’t need an answer or an excuse or an apology. Just the gift of time for you to unpack some things that are important and on your heart.
Honest words about how certain subjects make us feel inside, i.e Alex Jones makes me afraid, his level of intensity and hysteria is too much for me. I feel _____ etc
We need a communications expert Sarah or a de-radicalisation specialist to give us a cheat sheet on how to start these conversations 🙏🏼
We need to bring the Woke back and give them a big round of applause for their hard work. And the Right boys needs a good hug , a cup of tea , and a hand to handle the level of overwhelm.
If you made it this far thanks for reading my stream of consciousness 😁
I would love to have your comment on it seeing as you're also someone very well versed in similar topics I'm interested in.
Please don't get me wrong about dismissing guys as 'sensitive'. To be candid, I think we are all sensitive. We love so much, that we also hate (and hurt) so much. The pendulum swings far both ways. I have also been talking to many people about their emotions lately... at least more intensely so in the past three years. I do this with my own mother, father, older brother and some of my very close friends. Thai culture is not an open one, and psychotherapy is non-existent, really only accessible by the wealthy.
The best any one of us can do right now is to normalise these types of conversation. It's normal to share our struggles - it shouldn't be seen as weak. Genuine curiosity is just as important as active listening - and we're getting worse in this arena. That's the centre of the issue for me really. That's why I also wrote a piece about Narcissism that seems to be pervasive in modern societies ("an achievement society" like Byung-Chul Han coined it).
I think we're all in this together and we need to be vocal about the bad behaviours as well as the societal structure surrounding it. And please don't get me wrong - I'm not blaming people with narcissistic disorder. I'm simply shining a light on the rise in narcissism in ALL OF US.
Thanks Sarah. This is another great post. Very rational and considered.
I really loved the Naomi Klein quote about distraction. I've catching public transport in Sydney solidly for the past month and have been observing people's behaviour. The vast, vast majority scroll through social media robotically :(
I have recently become a captive audience to some anti-woke rhetoric. I’m currently spending about 2 hours a week with my Physiotherapist which ironically makes him one of the individuals I’m getting the most chance and opportunity for consistent ongoing dialogue with. He’s now comfortable enough around me to start letting some of the clinical professional facade slip which initially meant some really great chats but is now turning into so many moments that start with the words “the problem with the woke agenda…”
He is an otherwise thoughtful, intelligent, relational human with whom I have a lot in common. We have no issues agreeing on a raft of other topics from hiking to cost of living and climate crisis. But on this he’s caught in the binary, and has bought into the idea that theres a really dangerous woke-ness that is threatening culture - in particular threatening his culture, rights and freedoms as a white het male. I found myself wondering if it was time for a new physio but realised that would be boycotting and buying into the binaries by only spending my money on people who he would consider ‘woke.’ He’s actually a fantastic medical practitioner! Going to seek ways to elevate or at a minimum, shift the conversation.
Yes Dave! A great challenge. The world needs blokes like you sitting (lying) with men like your physio and challenging them enough to shake them from their biases. As per my previous comment elsewhere in this thread, I'm wondering if you could simply say , "what exactly is woke IYO?" and then gently drill down and down with me..."What is the issue there... how does that leave you feeling...?" etc. Go forth!
So right, Sarah! Really boring, but easy. And maybe just the start? What comes next? I think more complexity and our continued slide into collapse unknowns will result in more latching on to simple and distracting, Us vs. Them, thinking? Pick a side. It's safe, easy. We don't have to go deep and do the work and pick at the nuance and confront the (our) shadows. We don't even have to have empathy! That side is unfathomable. I'm the manager of my son's hockey team. Just before a game, I got wind of a new dressing room policy. I hadn't had a chance to read up on it so I asked the coaches. Their response, "oh you know, just some of that woke bullshit". That was it. They were absolved of any further parsing out of the issue, or an attempt at understanding, with that one word.
I agree. We are bound to see more lazy flopping into blame/polarizing/weaponsing. And so we will have to become vigilant to calling it out as often as we can.
One trick I work to - when ppl say "woke", politely, sweetly ask..."oh, what do you mean by woke?" and get them to own it...and see where the chat can go...
Yesterday a BBC programme said Pepper Pig and Mary Poppins had offence racist and sexists aspects 😂
This is all so crazy, as you say it’s incredible how smart people are getting sucked in. I really appreciate you bringing the dangers of Woke to peoples attention. 🙏🏻
Yeah, they probably do (have sexist/racist elements). They emerge from a different time. I don't think we deny this. Instead we use our wonderful discernment to decide if it's worth making a fuss of it or not. The evolved, adult thing to do would be to grow a discussion around how to frame these things, hold the contexts, educate our kids on contexts etc.
Agree, different times…and discussions about how best to educate and entertain children is needed. Its becoming to have a resemblance to the witch trials, no wonder we are all traumatised ❤️🩹 Being cancelled is being ostracised, banished from the tribe, these are deep wounds that are surfacing and not in a healthy way.
Very measured and sensible article. I have to say that what the right derides as “woke” strikes me as good manners or, as you said, treating people as humans. I think as soon as right-wing extremists use woke, they have lost an argument.
Courageously said Sarah, an excellent article that can be summed up in your following line “We have to put down the weapon. Because it will only shoot us in the foot”.
“Woke “ is a total distraction, a sleight of hand that divides and separates us from what really matters. We are at a pivotal point, Gaza and other atrocities are deciding what future we will get ;not whether we are “Woke” or not. ❤️🩹
Saw this clip this morning - you're onto something Sarah!
It definitely feels like the enshittification of the online world is poisoning irl discourse as well. These 'clashes' between 'woke' and 'anti-woke' are so overstated. They are clickbait catnip. Fake news indeed. And they are polarising for the very same reason all clickbait attention pillaging content is - outrage generating. But we should be able to tell that it's not real. The fact that people can't tell is what worries me. And of course, that it distracts us from what is real. Very worrying.
Hi, Sarah: First of all to get this out of the way - I hate you. Because of the podcast episode with Helen Lewis I now have yet another enlightening Substack to read when I have really no business adding any more to my current list!!!
What a brilliant chat and so wonderful to listen to a discourse which recognizes those of us who are hanging out in the middle (sometimes centre left, sometimes centre right) who apparently need to be either or nothing and really want to try and understand all of it without needing to push an agenda. Thank you!!!
This reminds me of a former yoga teacher of mine who I am connected with on Facebook. I have blocked her from my feed but occasionally will look at her page to see what she's talking about. The strange marriage of hippie yoga types and the far right kind of boggle my mind. I think the covid vaccine stuff is what led them to each other. Her most recent post is about the conspiracy theory around 15 minute cities and for someone who grows her own food, it strikes me as odd that she can't see why having a grocery store within walking distance could be a good thing. She posted a screenshot of Oxford England's explanation of their 15 min city highlighting things she found freedom infringing. But ignored a line right below that said, all of the above doesn't mean you can't drive around just that it may take longer to go on an out of the way route. It's almost comical how these types call those who question these conspiracy theories sheeple why they are the ones holding so tightly to largely unfounded beliefs. This polarization is so disheartening. And also, for someone who says Namaste to her classes everyday, she can be pretty nasty in Facebook comments. Yikes!
As a baby boomer I sit back with astonishment sometimes in observing where the world is and then I remember my youth and discontent and pushback from authority that, in my case, was quickly squashed! Lol
Feminism, human rights, apartheid, gay rights all happening in one huge explosion of multiple pendulums taking off at great speed. I love that we are even able to explore such issues in the West. Such freedom to grow. So fortunate.
My greatest concern is in education where the example of holding the left and right in balance, whilst still fostering the exploration of boundary pushing, must be maintained. Good old fashioned common sense of our institutions means teachers and professors are not afraid to speak, just as students are allowed to speak.
Tyranny on any side, for any cause, is still tyranny.
Let’s move on from woke or anti woke to curious discourse and respect in the spirit of compassion.
It's fantastic that you are able to have respectful disagreement/ discussion with your friend, and remain friends. The world definitely needs more of that. Kudos to you both.
I always considered myself on the left. I signed up for the electoral role in order to vote greens. My views/values have remained relatively the same: I believe in freedom and human rights. Strangely, our prevailing culture appears to have drifted so far to the left (which is "woke") that I'm now viewed as right wing (ie the people protesting for human rights during covid were portrayed as right wing extremists, me being kne of them).
There seems to be a lot of awareness in our society around right wing extremism, but a blind spot to left wing extremism, and we don't seem to know where that line is.
The "gender thing" for example, it is now illegal in Victoria to "misgender" someone. One must "affirm" a child's self-identity and wish to use things like puberty blockers. This isn't fringe anymore. This is the LAW! It's insane. Same deal with DEI initiatives which are fundamentally racist and sexist (ie preferential treatment based in race and sex)
The right can go too far, and so can the left.
Anytime we infringe upon basic human rights and freedom, is where I believe we can see the line being crossed (ie infringing upon free speech and medical consent which the left seem to love)
If we can continue having open respectful conversations without censorship, we'll do well.
Woke, anti or otherwise, as it is today, strikes me as a deftly deployed red herring. It plays into the hands of those governments that couldn't care less, who can sit back and watch with glee as we tear ourselves apart over words and ideas, so they never need worry about our actions.
Extending this further, and possibly too far, I sometimes wonder if the global news cycle is used in exactly the same way. There are so many horrendous things happening across the world. Humans have finite capacity and 24 hours in a day. Whilst we're busy being outraged by global news, and telling each other which side we should be on to be "good" in these global issues, we're not spending nearly as much time holding our governments to account on the finer detail of local policy.
It's the "someone always has a worse day somewhere" argument gone large. By that logic, in the western world, how politics and society treat people locally never becomes the priority, because there are bigger atrocities globally.
Very convenient if you're, say, the UK government at the moment, and for populists everywhere.
Yes a red herring. Your point about it being part of something bigger fits to the metacrisis/moloch thesis. And, you're right, our responsibility is to choose to step out of the spiral. No need to blame anyone, because there ain't anyone to blame and blaming, too, is a distraction.
Yes! A red herring.
It's all kayfabe!
I have surprisingly been going through similar interactions (although nowhere near as respectful as yours since my friends aren’t considered centrist) with my circle of friends. I have noticed a pattern with guy friends especially. Usually ones that were considered “intelligent” within their social groups. Once they reach late 30s, they started picking up Mark Manson book (usually because they felt related to the cover), adopted worldview that’s very “us vs. them”, very antagonistic towards the changes happening in the world, started using the term “left”.
These people are very disillusioned by the world themselves. It’s too chaotic. Too many perspectives to consider. Too many “sensitive” people that they have to be considerate to. It’s too much for them so they started viewing the world very differently and narrowly. A self defence mechanism of some sort. A way that let them not take “accountability” of their own actions.
And this is the trend I’m seeing up close. I have two guys who contacted me out of the blue (they do so sporadically over the years we’ve known each other) and I’m just appalled by their communications and change in their mindsets. Maybe not a change, since it probably was there from the beginning but just quieter.
I felt I needed to be vocal about my stance too. I’m glad I’m subscribed to you - it doesn’t feel so lonely in Bangkok.
Hmmm, which Mark Manson book - The Subtle art of...?
I agree that young, entitled men are struggling the most because their world view HAS been much simpler.
Yes, "The Subtle Art of...." The sentiment seems to be the wrong understanding that the book will teach them to 'give less f*ck'. But in reality, the book attempts to get people to 'give a f*ck' where it matters. The people, the connection and the love. To become more humbled about life in general so the self can be 'more contained and grounded'.
I think part of the trend is that the surrounding people of some of these entitled people I've come across are becoming more aware and consciously drawing better boundaries - aka people are becoming less tolerable of bad behaviours.
So it's popular among young men again? I might try get Mark on my podcast to correct the misreading...
Mark Manson came out with a Netflix show same title as his book last year too, so I would assume that his popularity picked up again. He definitely has interesting things to say that will benefit a lot of people. An honest perspective from someone who went through the feeling of being 'disillusioned' by the people, what success means, and how the world works in general (e.g. wealthy and popular people don't translate to being good people etc).
Mark has a well-balanced view generally but I guess the title of his book (although I agree with Steve that it's perfect in a way!) seems to resonate well with those who's already feeling sensitive towards the world - which in turn, are already reluctant to look inward.
Marks morphing into some sort of wise hobbit type guy. Maybe going a little bro, but I think he is a good influence, and easily accessible to young guys and girls 👌🏼
has there been a morph, Steve? Should I get him on to see where he's at?
Let me double check Sarah 😅😝😅
I get the feeling he has learnt a lot on his journey and is tapping into some honest conversation
I think the title of his book in some ways was perfect
It would have gotten heaps of angry people to read something which would have really re-empowered them
And not in a Tony Robbins or an Andrew Tate kind of pump it up style. More of a “okay, I got this” back to square one, chop wood , gather water, each day is its own victory. And the harvest will be sublime.
It is worth an email, especially around empowering guys and re establishing some shared values and guard rails
Busy pondering it myself , maybe we can chat about it in Paris 😁
I have found him super real. He ACTUALLY read my anxiety book on a plane and reached out with an endorsement when he landed. Out of the blue. And has taken my calls previously.
When are you in Paris?
Thanks Chusana , Mark seems to me to be a dufus who player in some questionable games as a younger man. And then went to write a book about what he discovered. Pick up games, drinking, and one up man ship gets boring real quick. And leaves a gaping hole in your soul a mile wide. I was always put off the book because of its title , but a friend of mine told me to read it. As he knew I was a little lost on how to focus my time, energy and love.
Marks book strips away a lot for the bullshit in life. Aka woke wack-a-mole screaming parties. And indulging in judgement and blame to make your own shit smell better.
Take responsibility, understand yourself and get to understand those closest to you that matter.
Sounds like a good way to deal with all of those things that our woke phase brought to the surface 👌🏼
I liked your insights into people’s ways of dealing with the conflict and confusion. Boundaries and a listening ear as to “why you so crazy 😝 “
Yes, I got that sense too. And I'm glad that he penned down what he discovered and shared it with the world. It does strip away a lot of the bullshit and he does bring in a lot of the ancient philosophies that are still applicable to the modern life.
I'm smiling reading your comment because it's nice to see someone taking away the core points about what it means to live a good life. If it's not about relationships - what is life anyway?
Mark touched on this a lot too - toxic positivity - that I highly agree with. People, especially men, are taught, directly and indirectly, to suppress their emotions. There was a time in history that emotions were associated with the feminist movement against logic. Thank goodness we came a long way from that. Like Carl Jung said about emotions, "What you resist, persists". The deeper it's buried or 'forgotten' consciously, these emotions can continue to influence our behaviours and wellbeing in unseen ways.
So yeah... I feel like we're moving towards the "let's get in touch with ourselves more" era again - but this time, much more equipped with scientific knowledge especially in the neuroscience discipline.
I concur, and when I mean dufus, I mean dufus as in what all men are as they figure themselves out. Women have their own journey also , but men gain so much of their identity and social capital from doing , that they try on or are enticed by things or ways of things. Which is fine. But this journey needs to be based on some sound values, and guided in a way so that we do not try on the wrong things. Or enticed to the dark side when our journey trips us up.
It’s interesting that you’ve framed it specifically for men - as I’m experiencing this phenomenon up close when I moved to live closer to my family. I can see it in my own brother, guy friends and many male relatives. Society and surrounding women seem to have a way of propping up these men in ways that’s not genuine (oftentimes because it affects their “social face” too). And off we go, on this farce that, as time passes, comes down like a sand castle against the waves.
I tried opening up with many of these male figures in my life. But would be shot down along with the sentiment of “what would I know that they don’t”. But I think my stance really has been quite clear, especially in these past four years, that there’s a time for standing up for yourself and what you feel is right. To be able to critique the things you previously believed to be true. To have the awareness to spot toxic behaviours in your life (as well as in yourself!) and have the ability to deal with it in healthy ways.
Chusana , you used the word sensitive to describe how the men are behaving. There is something to this. And may help to reduce the distress for those around them and you.
Dudes feel things, they are just not taught how to read the emotional language that their body gives them. They need to be held accountable, but we have to understand the animal that we are dealing with.
I am not dismissing poor behaviour, but they are sensitive to the discomfort that the cognitive and emotional load that the woke wave brought to us all. And they are not coping very well.
As Sarah mentioned , it came about during the discoveries of systemic and unconscious racism towards people of cool different shades 😎.
And set off a steam roller through society, all the way to our own front doors where it opened up the can of worms with how we behave towards each other. Within couples, families and communities.
Essential work
But like when your boss or partner asks you “do you have a minute” you pulse quickens and your mind does a quick summary of your Dickhead/Jesus behaviour ratio 😝.
It’s like some of us boarded two different trains
One crazy train to Jazz hands , where we dug up all of dead bodies and rattled the skeletons in the closests along the way
The other went right, on a journey to Alex Jones’ front door, with numerous stops along the way visiting narcissistic doctors, psychs and politicians along the way.
My father lost two of his brothers to the second crazy train , and we were talking the other day trying to figure out how to address the situation and open up dialogue. In order to have some normal sort of conversation and connection.
Unfortunately we did not crack the answer
But we are on our way
It involves some “I” language and non violent communication
Men’s circles utilise I language in order to minimise threat to others and also to insist on accountability and reflection on how “I” feel.
Rather than group think with “us guys”, or projection with “those” people , or “the left” .
Brings men back inside and asks them what the F do they actually feel? That alone is not the answer but it is a start.
I think it maybe able to be initiated by us, and modelled by us.
And it needs a clear declaration that the guy in question is important to you , that you want a good relationship with them. Guys like a clear linear, I am here, this is where I want to go. With you. This will engage them.
And maybe ask them to be able to just sit and listen to you , that you don’t need an answer or an excuse or an apology. Just the gift of time for you to unpack some things that are important and on your heart.
Honest words about how certain subjects make us feel inside, i.e Alex Jones makes me afraid, his level of intensity and hysteria is too much for me. I feel _____ etc
We need a communications expert Sarah or a de-radicalisation specialist to give us a cheat sheet on how to start these conversations 🙏🏼
We need to bring the Woke back and give them a big round of applause for their hard work. And the Right boys needs a good hug , a cup of tea , and a hand to handle the level of overwhelm.
If you made it this far thanks for reading my stream of consciousness 😁
Steve, your comment came at a perfect time. I just completed my piece on "Emotions" - https://chusana.substack.com/p/how-our-feelings-shape-our-world
I would love to have your comment on it seeing as you're also someone very well versed in similar topics I'm interested in.
Please don't get me wrong about dismissing guys as 'sensitive'. To be candid, I think we are all sensitive. We love so much, that we also hate (and hurt) so much. The pendulum swings far both ways. I have also been talking to many people about their emotions lately... at least more intensely so in the past three years. I do this with my own mother, father, older brother and some of my very close friends. Thai culture is not an open one, and psychotherapy is non-existent, really only accessible by the wealthy.
The best any one of us can do right now is to normalise these types of conversation. It's normal to share our struggles - it shouldn't be seen as weak. Genuine curiosity is just as important as active listening - and we're getting worse in this arena. That's the centre of the issue for me really. That's why I also wrote a piece about Narcissism that seems to be pervasive in modern societies ("an achievement society" like Byung-Chul Han coined it).
https://chusana.substack.com/p/narcissism-the-main-cause-of-evil
I think we're all in this together and we need to be vocal about the bad behaviours as well as the societal structure surrounding it. And please don't get me wrong - I'm not blaming people with narcissistic disorder. I'm simply shining a light on the rise in narcissism in ALL OF US.
Like all dreamers, I mistook disenchantment for truth.
Jean-Paul Sartre (1964) ‘Écrire’
nice
If woke means I give a shit about our collective humanity, then I must be woke 😌
Worth going back and listening to that Susan Neiman episode on this!
Thanks Sarah. This is another great post. Very rational and considered.
I really loved the Naomi Klein quote about distraction. I've catching public transport in Sydney solidly for the past month and have been observing people's behaviour. The vast, vast majority scroll through social media robotically :(
Our necks have changed!
I have recently become a captive audience to some anti-woke rhetoric. I’m currently spending about 2 hours a week with my Physiotherapist which ironically makes him one of the individuals I’m getting the most chance and opportunity for consistent ongoing dialogue with. He’s now comfortable enough around me to start letting some of the clinical professional facade slip which initially meant some really great chats but is now turning into so many moments that start with the words “the problem with the woke agenda…”
He is an otherwise thoughtful, intelligent, relational human with whom I have a lot in common. We have no issues agreeing on a raft of other topics from hiking to cost of living and climate crisis. But on this he’s caught in the binary, and has bought into the idea that theres a really dangerous woke-ness that is threatening culture - in particular threatening his culture, rights and freedoms as a white het male. I found myself wondering if it was time for a new physio but realised that would be boycotting and buying into the binaries by only spending my money on people who he would consider ‘woke.’ He’s actually a fantastic medical practitioner! Going to seek ways to elevate or at a minimum, shift the conversation.
Yes Dave! A great challenge. The world needs blokes like you sitting (lying) with men like your physio and challenging them enough to shake them from their biases. As per my previous comment elsewhere in this thread, I'm wondering if you could simply say , "what exactly is woke IYO?" and then gently drill down and down with me..."What is the issue there... how does that leave you feeling...?" etc. Go forth!
Your physio is onto something.
So right, Sarah! Really boring, but easy. And maybe just the start? What comes next? I think more complexity and our continued slide into collapse unknowns will result in more latching on to simple and distracting, Us vs. Them, thinking? Pick a side. It's safe, easy. We don't have to go deep and do the work and pick at the nuance and confront the (our) shadows. We don't even have to have empathy! That side is unfathomable. I'm the manager of my son's hockey team. Just before a game, I got wind of a new dressing room policy. I hadn't had a chance to read up on it so I asked the coaches. Their response, "oh you know, just some of that woke bullshit". That was it. They were absolved of any further parsing out of the issue, or an attempt at understanding, with that one word.
I agree. We are bound to see more lazy flopping into blame/polarizing/weaponsing. And so we will have to become vigilant to calling it out as often as we can.
One trick I work to - when ppl say "woke", politely, sweetly ask..."oh, what do you mean by woke?" and get them to own it...and see where the chat can go...
Agree! I try to do that, too.
will take a look at both x
Yesterday a BBC programme said Pepper Pig and Mary Poppins had offence racist and sexists aspects 😂
This is all so crazy, as you say it’s incredible how smart people are getting sucked in. I really appreciate you bringing the dangers of Woke to peoples attention. 🙏🏻
Yeah, they probably do (have sexist/racist elements). They emerge from a different time. I don't think we deny this. Instead we use our wonderful discernment to decide if it's worth making a fuss of it or not. The evolved, adult thing to do would be to grow a discussion around how to frame these things, hold the contexts, educate our kids on contexts etc.
Agree, different times…and discussions about how best to educate and entertain children is needed. Its becoming to have a resemblance to the witch trials, no wonder we are all traumatised ❤️🩹 Being cancelled is being ostracised, banished from the tribe, these are deep wounds that are surfacing and not in a healthy way.
Very measured and sensible article. I have to say that what the right derides as “woke” strikes me as good manners or, as you said, treating people as humans. I think as soon as right-wing extremists use woke, they have lost an argument.
Courageously said Sarah, an excellent article that can be summed up in your following line “We have to put down the weapon. Because it will only shoot us in the foot”.
“Woke “ is a total distraction, a sleight of hand that divides and separates us from what really matters. We are at a pivotal point, Gaza and other atrocities are deciding what future we will get ;not whether we are “Woke” or not. ❤️🩹
Thanks Susan. Total distraction and tedious and saddening to watch smart people get egoically sucked into the dumb diatribe
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5llpq4INOT/?igsh=MTRxYXkxcWo0aGFqMg==
Saw this clip this morning - you're onto something Sarah!
It definitely feels like the enshittification of the online world is poisoning irl discourse as well. These 'clashes' between 'woke' and 'anti-woke' are so overstated. They are clickbait catnip. Fake news indeed. And they are polarising for the very same reason all clickbait attention pillaging content is - outrage generating. But we should be able to tell that it's not real. The fact that people can't tell is what worries me. And of course, that it distracts us from what is real. Very worrying.
Ahhh, Ashley holds the point super well. Bravo to her.
Hi, Sarah: First of all to get this out of the way - I hate you. Because of the podcast episode with Helen Lewis I now have yet another enlightening Substack to read when I have really no business adding any more to my current list!!!
What a brilliant chat and so wonderful to listen to a discourse which recognizes those of us who are hanging out in the middle (sometimes centre left, sometimes centre right) who apparently need to be either or nothing and really want to try and understand all of it without needing to push an agenda. Thank you!!!
I jolted at hate!! ....but glad it's for the right reasons!! x
This reminds me of a former yoga teacher of mine who I am connected with on Facebook. I have blocked her from my feed but occasionally will look at her page to see what she's talking about. The strange marriage of hippie yoga types and the far right kind of boggle my mind. I think the covid vaccine stuff is what led them to each other. Her most recent post is about the conspiracy theory around 15 minute cities and for someone who grows her own food, it strikes me as odd that she can't see why having a grocery store within walking distance could be a good thing. She posted a screenshot of Oxford England's explanation of their 15 min city highlighting things she found freedom infringing. But ignored a line right below that said, all of the above doesn't mean you can't drive around just that it may take longer to go on an out of the way route. It's almost comical how these types call those who question these conspiracy theories sheeple why they are the ones holding so tightly to largely unfounded beliefs. This polarization is so disheartening. And also, for someone who says Namaste to her classes everyday, she can be pretty nasty in Facebook comments. Yikes!
Yes, my worst trolls often have "light worker " etc in their bios
Oh gross! ☹️
As a baby boomer I sit back with astonishment sometimes in observing where the world is and then I remember my youth and discontent and pushback from authority that, in my case, was quickly squashed! Lol
Feminism, human rights, apartheid, gay rights all happening in one huge explosion of multiple pendulums taking off at great speed. I love that we are even able to explore such issues in the West. Such freedom to grow. So fortunate.
My greatest concern is in education where the example of holding the left and right in balance, whilst still fostering the exploration of boundary pushing, must be maintained. Good old fashioned common sense of our institutions means teachers and professors are not afraid to speak, just as students are allowed to speak.
Tyranny on any side, for any cause, is still tyranny.
Let’s move on from woke or anti woke to curious discourse and respect in the spirit of compassion.
It's fantastic that you are able to have respectful disagreement/ discussion with your friend, and remain friends. The world definitely needs more of that. Kudos to you both.
I always considered myself on the left. I signed up for the electoral role in order to vote greens. My views/values have remained relatively the same: I believe in freedom and human rights. Strangely, our prevailing culture appears to have drifted so far to the left (which is "woke") that I'm now viewed as right wing (ie the people protesting for human rights during covid were portrayed as right wing extremists, me being kne of them).
There seems to be a lot of awareness in our society around right wing extremism, but a blind spot to left wing extremism, and we don't seem to know where that line is.
The "gender thing" for example, it is now illegal in Victoria to "misgender" someone. One must "affirm" a child's self-identity and wish to use things like puberty blockers. This isn't fringe anymore. This is the LAW! It's insane. Same deal with DEI initiatives which are fundamentally racist and sexist (ie preferential treatment based in race and sex)
The right can go too far, and so can the left.
Anytime we infringe upon basic human rights and freedom, is where I believe we can see the line being crossed (ie infringing upon free speech and medical consent which the left seem to love)
If we can continue having open respectful conversations without censorship, we'll do well.
Je vais merci Sarah x