95 Comments

I do love the message that it is the underdog that will prevail in this crisis as opposed to the powerful figure. This is empowering and important in these times but I grew up in the 80's and the fairytale message I received is that a man (rich, powerful, prince) is the one that will save the day. I know the traditional fairytales are very different to the Disney version but there are generations of women that have received the same message as me and have been conditioned by them.

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Time to do proper fairytales - that have lessons and morals that serve us, not delude us. We need to tell the brutal stories, and provide guidance as we do.

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When I was teaching writing to late primary school age kids, we wrote 'fractured fairy tales' which allowed the imagination to rewrite original fairy tales using different lenses. So much fun especially when kids read their work aloud.

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I re-read this chapter and I really like it. I think it is just the word fairytales (I automatically think Disney) that irks me. Shari called them folk tales and it may seem pedantic but to me using a different word conjures up something else entirely (no Disney bullshit)

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I tend to be someone who refuses to get bogged down by semantics (within reason). I prefer to reprogram my thinking around a term or word.

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I always loved fairy tales, so i like opportunities to play with my ideas about a word and rewrite its meaning over and over again

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I know Kristy - but as we age, and seriously take on adulthood, it is our own responsibility to question out conditioning.

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I wrote my college thesis on comparing the different versions of the brothers Grimms‘ fairy tales throughout the centuries and how they reflect the different social norms in regards to violence, sexuality and gender roles. They were originally oral folk tales told to people of all ages, mostly as a source of entertainment during daily work. Sarah’s point is valid, they are reflections of the aspirations of the people, often citing the need to change social norms. Only later did the Grimms convert them as a didactic tool to teach young children about ‚proper‘ beliefs and values. Keep sociology and liberal art schools alive if we want to continue generations who think for themselves and see the big picture of who we are as a society!

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Yes...the liberal arts are the closest to a forum for this kind of moral guidance!!! A chapter to come on this.

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Ooh interesting 🤔

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Sarah, I loved your premise about hero's journeys being singular, potentially lonely, and about slaying dragons. Fairy tales are certainly more realistic about the messiness and unfairness of life.

However, isn't there a risk of extending the reliance on fairy tales to guide us in life's journey problematic. At least of the body of European fairy tales that we grew up with? They are reflective of the culture that they come out of - damsel's that need rescuing; living happy ever after; prince-charmings; horrible step-mothers; etc.

Is it time to write some modern fairy tales? (yet even the name itself seems to promise magical outcomes!)

I went to a performance last week called "Grimm", for the Brisbane Festival, produced by Shake and Stir theatre company, where they cleverly and humorously 're-imagined' the opus of Grimms' tales into a more modern take on the old tales. It was excellent, and still somehow 'magical', and didn't shy away from violence and characters' evil and weaknesses, as well as strength and persistence...

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Yes, David. Maybe I need to emphasise my point isn't about being guided by the old fairy tales, but to create new ones. Or perhaps more directly and productively- to get alive to the notion of cooperation v lone ranger mentality, and the need for telling kids the brutal truth WHILE ALSO providing the moral, fortifying guidance.

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It starts with writers bringing a different story into the world. Our current culture is still so bogged down with an unsustainable narrative.

Nate just interviewed Janine Benyus. She is an absolute gem.

She comments: Changing what it is we desire is really important. Life wants the continuity of life and I'm not sure we want that deep down.

Nate replies, it's not in our current values system as a culture.

-o0o-

This is totally why we're screwed. Not enough people are on board this different way of seeing and living life.

Our adolescent culture is about to learn the consequences of behaving in such a self-centred way. Oh to have more adults in the rooms where the decisions are made.

They need Janine's biomimicry words in their ears, “Nature runs on sunlight, uses only the energy it needs, fits form to function, recycles everything, rewards cooperation, banks on diversity, demands local expertise, curbs excess from within and taps the power of limits”.

I opine the lack of leadership around these well observed principles. What a difference that would make.

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I will listen. That first line is confronting.

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https://youtu.be/lxeN7V0rTSM?si=m1YNAxHASn_OXG3E

Damon Gameau thought about it 2 years ago. Watch his TED talk to get the ball rolling 👍

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There is something in that

The collective shame is determined to self immolate

To go out in a collective silent scream

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I love this comment. Sounds like a really interesting interview

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Yes David, Sarah - this is really the point I can see. I wonder how the current animated films fit this model? Films like Despicable Me have the daughters in who fix everything - although I suppose we still have the happy endings 🤷‍♀️. My kids are 17 and 20 - I’m a bit out of touch with what’s new. We were all Toy Story and Shrek,Up and Ratatouille. To name but a few 🤣. I know they’re not fairy tales as such

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Oh, I love this! I feel like I’m forever talking about the ‘Heroines’ journey, but this is a much better distinction :)

I had a couple of very old fairytale books growing up, handed down from my Mum, and they were dark and brutal… and real. I loved them. No Disney in sight.

The images and additional storylines I imagined stay with me even now. They seemed to tell true stories of women and children’s pain - and the characters were always flawed but, as you’ve noted, ingenious in how they collaborated and relied on good character to prevail.

Let’s write new fairytales and reclaim the moniker! :)

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It's madness, right - we obscure the truth (the brutality of life) and leave out the helpful moral guidance.

Kids are far more resilient than current parenting models give them credit for. The missing bit is the adult guidance.

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Removing life’s lessons, madness indeed.

I’ve worked in and around education settings as well as having two kids of my own. I’m aware of many instances of parents intervening, worried that their child will struggle too much. Their efforts to help also assumes that their kid can’t cope with the difficulty and when change is made to accomodate, the opportunity to develop resilience is lost.

In the last two decades or so there’s been a lot of talk and programs developed around building resilience in our kids. Some of this, I’m sure is to address the rise in anxiety and mental illness.

I don’t know who said it but… Don’t prepare the path for the child, prepare the child for the path.

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Oh don't kill the darling on Moloch chapter! If anything, it's probably a book of its own. So my understanding of it all - it's important to recognise how and why we do things personally and collectively, and how crazy outcomes can be, to enable us to change our mindset, strengthen the muscle of working/playing with our intentions, following the beat of our heart, question the merits of the competition and 'just stop' etc. and how by doing so on a personal level can change the collective, but surrender to that too. It's so empowering when we come from the intentional space 'just stop' yet play. I experienced this somewhat when I went through my own crisis of going through a family separation - the coming from a space of love intention was powerful. So yes maybe later in the section where you "let rip with mindsets for the future". I feel the quote ascribed to Laozi "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" helps here too. I'm running out of time now and will read 'fairy tales' later. Best wishes as always and I did wonder if there were too many cooks in the kitchen with a serialised book - but I'm grateful for this journey.

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Love this feedback.

Not planning to kill the moloch bit, just this fairytale side note...will see.

Your summation is gorgeous. Yep, I think seeing things from a different angle helps us "allow" and to access the space required to move forward in true congruence.

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Oh...and to "play" and to REALLY live. x

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Shortly after trump was elected in 2016, I read a meme that likened the feeling of anxious anticipation many of us felt about the inevitable trajectory of our country to that of your dad moving out before the new boyfriend crashes his Camaro on your front lawn. This feeling initiates a state of adulthood in children who are otherwise unempowered to provide for themselves, a mismatch of authority and responsibility equally experienced by moms.

Considering our general tendency to look to the adults in the room to tell us what's next and the linear/traditional (masculine) approach to "solutions" that serve only to tighten the complexity of the tangle, I believe our next necessary steps are right into the twist of the mobius strip: evolving our identity from the child to the archetypal mother (a character commonly erased from our fairy tales).

Because, ready or not, we are the adults in the room; not just the moms, but any/all of us who see what's happening and want to know what happens next. We recognize that we are products of our environment and if all we can do is commit to/model joy even in the presence of suffering, change is inevitable. At their best, mothers bear witness to their child's pain—heartfully recognizing their feelings—and demonstrating its transmutation into empowerment.

This is so nearly impossible for those of us who received no such demonstration from our own parents and now operate in our own family without a meaningful source of similar support. But we have to undo the conflation of mothering and self-sacrifice—both in our own experience and as a society. I’m positive that by responding to suffering with compassion and recommitment to our own joy, the substrate will change. Even if just a little and for just a breath. But a sustained practice will move the needle.

It's not easy work and it's certainly not quick. But as I sort through my own evolution from disempowerment to self-actualization, it's changed my family and enriched my life. Sometimes a problem is relieved just on the other side of its acknowledgment-- and sometimes a problem demands political/economic/systemic restructuring, but that also doesn't happen before it’s acknowledged.

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So much in this comment. The Camaro on the front lawn...and having to become the adult overnight....and I love this "evolving our identity from the child to the archetypal mother (a character commonly erased from our fairy tales)." Mother is the role we are being called to embody.

Also, your point that a problem is relieved just on the other side of its acknowledgment...this sums up a lot of what I'm trying to do here...thank you.

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Hi, just wondering if you wouldn't mind elaborating on your journey from disempowerment to self-actualization and how it has enriched your life. My family is quite fractured at the moment and I would be very interested to hear more (only if you are comfortable sharing).

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I thought I knew the other day when I wrote this comment (which I would say had something to do with trust and detachment) but after a humbling from my teenager on all the answers I thought I had, I'm realizing the only road to wholeness is via radical honesty (ha! That actually sounds like a road name) which is a fuzzy one at best thanks to all the versions of truth floating around out there but the only one that really matters is the one we see for ourself. Trust that everyone is doing what works for them even if it's not what the say they want. And then give them grace because the same is true for you <3

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Your teenager is a sage.

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she is my greatest teacher.

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Ah teenagers, I have some of those. Sometimes I think I feel more lost than they do

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your way through is reflected in your honesty-- in my experience, if you feel lost, your work is to find yourself. What are your values and interests? How does your life reflect those? I got so lost in mothering before I realized that "mother" is something one does and should never have been used as an identifier. Find Kristy H. The way you do it, warts and all, teaches and makes space for others to find themselves and really, this is what our teenagers should be doing at this point-- both learning who they are as well as the ever-evolving nature of their "self". As hard as this work is/can be, know that you are all right where you should be and you can do it. Teach your teen kindness by being kind to yourself. Turns out, the parenting I performed was typically lost to the fundamental demonstration of my humaning.

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Thank you, this was really insightful and relevant to my situation. Your words moved me x

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These recent chapters are really ringing bells for me Sarah. You are teaching and bringing together a lot of my experiences, observations and preferences. It feels weird (I am a thinker rather than a feeler), but it is also giving shape and substance, which is reassuring. Full disclosure I read fiction every night before I go to sleep. Ok that's not full disclosure - the type of fiction is. I love Sci-fi and all sorts of fantasy, especially dystopian futuristic stuff. I recently stopped buying dystopian fiction from US authors and only buy from a few UK authors now. the difference ? the US style [I am really generalising now] is hero driven, he wins through violence and it is all about the 3Fs (faith, family and firearms - seriously at least 2 have stated that as the justification for the lone wolf prepper to march to victory). the UK style examines more collaboration, even the more male lead fiction has a few strong (non-dependent) females, it brings in more morality and psychology, and is so much more than fighting your way from A to B. violence is there (that is often reality) but it isn't the whole point.

So please keep it all going, thank you for leading the way and shining the torch into the shadows, as well as escorting us through the hall or mirrors. I am getting a week bit hysterical here - I think my reaction to the heaviness of the state of play. but thanks

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Interesting observation re UK v US. American film also - almost comically - continues with the goodie v baddie narrative. I'm thinking of that godawful netflix film Leave the World Behind.

Funnily, I'm just reading Ursula Le Guin's The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas....

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Sheri S Tepper - another good one, similar age/era to Ursula. try Gibbon's Decline and Fall , or Family Tree. Both strong feminist and sci-fi/fantasy writers.

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Please don't kill this darling, I love this aside. It touches on the depth of the conditioning that got us here and the essential transformation that is required moving forward. Even the notion of continual rewriting of these stories over time has power - we are needing to rewrite again, that is an invitation to join the continuum of humanity and use them to reshape our current narratives. xo

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Nice, thanks GnLB

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Agree, beautifully said

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Really interesting to hear your process. It was your grandfather's version of Hansel and Gretel that I was subjected to! I remember being on holidays by the sea in Wexford, at the age of five and having the most vivid nightmare of my life in which I was the unfortunate Gretel. I couldn't wake up....The fear was real!

I love the idea of the women and children needing to be co-operative and to work with the wisdom inherent in nature and the elders. It is a pity that the male heroic journey abandons such things. An ode to toxic masculinity.

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We are all Gretel!

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Every time I see on the news (the only time I watch TV is for SBS & ABC news) the steady stream of refugees traversing the globe trying to find a safer place to live, reminds me of how lucky I am in Australia. It also reminds me of the many successful people who have risen to the top of their profession here in Australia who were at some point in their lives refugees. They had a hero’s journey but at the time of bobbing around at sea in a leaking boat or walking for weeks over land, they are in the middle of a nightmare.

I can’t relate to the desperation that drives a refugee, but I can relate to folk tales of fleeing evil, the struggle to find oneself and the celebration after a battle.

In fiction writing the key to a good story is the journey towards a campfire huddle before a battle, the explosion of emotion during the intense fight scene and the feel of joy / good / so worth it in the end of the journey. where the good guys get to live happily ever after.

Following this narrative we are in the huddle around the campfire before the battle and it has been a long journey to get here. In writing the epic tale, we are poised to enter the foray, the battle scene is next... Then tension is building and building… and we all know what happens next - don’t we?

Can we please just skips to the good part? Is activated hope.

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I'd say the refugee journey requires fairy tale cooperation at times...The happy end comes when we all take part in the the cooperative fairy tale.

The campfire element is great.

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Yes!! Dark and twisted fairy tales like Angela Slatter has collected and regifted to the world.

There are some great women writing in this space at the moment. Check out Kaaron Warren, Kell Woods. This is what horror has become as a genre to reflect our current world. It’s darker and more fetid than then stereotypes.

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Gosh ...another rabbit hole!

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I love this. I've been studying fairy tales from a jungian perspective over the past year. Also- loved the tasteful "dig" at icebaths and tech bros 😂"These self-professed heroes did a lot of ice baths."

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The whole archetypes thing? I'm so interested in the way diff archetypes are needed for different epochs.

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I too learnt the gruesome version of the fairy tales. I think this is a great analogy. Especially with the concept of most of us just being ordinary people, looking for ways to find a way through the emerging polycrisis. With an uncertain ending. And doing so by collaborating with each other, and being kind. (Then there are Frodo and Sam in the Fellowship of the Ring - fairy tale format?) I love this ingredient that you've come up with. I am enjoying your occasional exploration of what is popping out. And curious as to whether there will be an eventual alternative version of this book with all the popped out bits threaded in, in different ways. (Sorry I can't join you in London - the timing doesn't quite work for me - but looking forward to hearing all about it in some way in due course.)

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LOTR def a fairy parable.

I definitely think that there will be a version where I take what I've done and massage it a little into a book format.

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Loved this!

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and yes

we need the elders

Leunig should write some now

Some graphic novels about working for the devil

And how at the end of the day , the devil will not be there for you

In your hour of need

But he will teach you to sleep in the bed you have made

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Once again I am triggered by the binary boys/vs girls perspective

Let the boys do their shit , they are learning , they are getting there. I could side fire back and say how many girls took to TikTok or online shopping during those times.

Or I would rather speak about how much we cried and learnt that we need each other SO SO much.

I think they sit well together

Demonstrate the two mindsets and the two paths and how they intersect our own journeys into the dark night of the soul.

And the dark nights of societies soul (children being sold into slavery , eaten , abused) when times get so tough , good people need to make the toughest decisions. Or we become so numb to ourselves, that we become brutal monsters.

And demonstrate the play of moloch (maybe call it satanic energy / fear ? And what happens when it is allowed to run riot. Both in the individual and in society.

And then demonstrate that we have a choice at any point in those journeys. Even at the end of the road, when we have reached rock bottom.

That we are worthy of redemption, and can be reborn, and be of help to others.

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I hear you, Steve. I can see you're challenged by my language and direction on this.

Everyone is worthy of redemption. Yes. And we must always turn around and help. I always will.

AND...the dominant narrative is the hero's journey, it's the tech bro disaster etc...and these narratives are dragging everything down. Girls are on TikTok, women are hurting men etc...but I'm honed in on the societal, civilisational level, systems stuff. Yes it's complex and we are ALL implicated. AND we have to really robustly tackle the dominant mindset/narrative. I'll also add...I feel (and I won't speak for all women and active men)...fed up with waiting for the blokes (the bloke narrative) to catch up and shift to a better expression of masculinity. It doesn't serve us at the moment. I think that work will need to be done (and it must be done) WHILE we move onwards to a new mindset. The boys will need to learn and adjust en route. I tend to think this will also happen as the new narrative emerges and leads.

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Yes Sarah

I agree

It’s time to call a spade and spade

And get to work 😊

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Oh and don’t get me wrong

My comments have nothing to do with gender , race or creed, or boys vs girls

It’s too late in the game for any of that crap

What I am talking about is just human behaviour

Kindness or meanness , good or destructive

An arsehole is an arsehole

They all pretty much come in the same colour

And it’s the one thing we all have in common 😝

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Maybe maybe moloch is too obscure a concept?

It does describe the death spiral that we are in though and why it occurs

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It's not a complete explainer.

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I believe it's certainly part of the path to some clarity for some of us and important it lives in some version of this clusterfuckery

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